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Thread: Z145, Z146 and Z72

  1. #51
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    H4a1-T152C!
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    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by Il PapÓ View Post
    False alarm, Big tree seems to have me wrongly as DYS492=12, I'm like others Z56 according to Yfull DYS492=14
    What does your FTDNA say your DYS492 value is?
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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     Agamemnon (04-28-2017)

  3. #52
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    81% FRA+13% ITA+6% SPA
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    French
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    R1b U152 Z56 BY3538

    France New Caledonia Italy Spain Luxembourg Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    What does your FTDNA say your DYS492 value is?
    It says nothing, I'm not tested for DYS492 on FTDNA (if we exclude BIGY ofc).
    Last edited by Il PapÓ; 04-28-2017 at 02:11 PM.

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  5. #53
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    Mostly Dutch
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    R1b-U152>Z56>Z145

    Netherlands
    OK, big Y results are in; I was given BY1823, in the same block as Z145+. Some browsing in my results show me I am negative for Z72, BY3951, and also negative for PF6582, so that is interesting. Paternal line is from 1700 in the Betuwe; before that, I can at the moment only speculate; the surname is quite common in Dutch Brabant. No matches according to the match-function. I will see what the U152 group admin may say. I will also send to Williamson's tree.
    Ancestry (approx.): ~88.75% Northwest-Europe; 6.25 Jewish; ~4% Indonesia; ~1% India

  6. #54
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    R1b-U152>Z56>Z145

    Netherlands
    In the FTDNA SNP search I saw the following people having BY1823 (may I call that Z145*?), I believe they all are Z72- and PF6582-. I can't see who they all are, though I can at least guess with help of the U152 group.

    BY1823_map.png

    Two English (and American) and the French one apparently form a branch; From STR data from the U152 project I can see that the American with an English name (not sure if he is one of the English dots) and the French dot likely share an ancestor in the medieval period (if it is not due to convergence). Since Aquitaine was British back then, I think it is possible that the French one is British in origin. Furthermore there is another Brit, a Belgian who I can't trace, but am really interested in, and myself, the Dutch one. These are all lonely branches. It would be interesting if some may form a new branch; I find it remarkable that they are geographical close to each other. Right now it seems to me that Z145 in its early period (ca. 1500-1000BC) was one of the lineages "scattered" within Urnfield. Maybe these lonely branches spread with Hallstatt or La TŔne. Of the known larger branches of Z145, only Z72 seems to me convincingly "Roman".
    Last edited by Pylsteen; 11-30-2017 at 10:33 PM.
    Ancestry (approx.): ~88.75% Northwest-Europe; 6.25 Jewish; ~4% Indonesia; ~1% India

  7. #55
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    R1b-U152>Z56>Z145

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Pylsteen View Post

    Two English (and American) and the French one apparently form a branch; From STR data from the U152 project I can see that the American with an English name (not sure if he is one of the English dots) and the French dot likely share an ancestor in the medieval period (if it is not due to convergence). Since Aquitaine was British back then, I think it is possible that the French one is British in origin.
    Good news; I found I share the two unnamed variants common to this branch; took some time, since the numbers changed because of the conversion, but thanks to Williamson's conversion table I found it. That means I am no lonely branch anymore; TMRCA I have to look at that later, I think ca. 500 BC, could be more or less.
    Ancestry (approx.): ~88.75% Northwest-Europe; 6.25 Jewish; ~4% Indonesia; ~1% India

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  9. #56
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    R1b-U152>Z56>Z145

    Netherlands
    I can see that the American with an English name (not sure if he is one of the English dots) and the French dot likely share an ancestor in the medieval period (if it is not due to convergence).
    OK, it is slightly different; the STR comparison was deceiving; in the still unnamed Z145-cluster of four (myself included) based on BigY, the French one did split off first (probably ca. 1200 BC). I split off last with an English family probably ca. 400 BC (rough estimates). Historical interpretation: Gauls/Belgae?. Work in progress.
    Ancestry (approx.): ~88.75% Northwest-Europe; 6.25 Jewish; ~4% Indonesia; ~1% India

  10. #57
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    U152+Z56+S47+BY3949

    England North of England Australia Wales
    I've just been reading this thread about DYS492=14 or 12 for Z56.

    There are a few of us with a result of 13. Is this of any value to the discussion?

  11. #58
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    We also have DYS392 = 15.
    Last edited by G Livesey; 07-18-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #59
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    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by G Livesey View Post
    I've just been reading this thread about DYS492=14 or 12 for Z56.

    There are a few of us with a result of 13. Is this of any value to the discussion?
    The STR seems to have gone from 12 to 14. So, the 14 to 13 move is not all that meaningful for Z56 overall.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  13. #60
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    U152+Z56+S47+BY3949

    England North of England Australia Wales
    We do have a member who is Z56+ but Z43- who has DYS492=12.
    Updated Ancestry DNA; England, Wales, NW Europe 91%, Norwegian 9%
    Old Ancestry DNA; Europe West 54%, Great Britain 23%, Wales/Scotland/Ireland 13%; Scandinavia 7%; Iberian Peninsula 2%
    FTDNA; British Isles 81%, West and Central Europe 18%
    Paper Trail; England 87.5%, Wales 12.5%

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