Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25

Thread: Origins and migrations of Z253 subclades (particularly A17)

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    14
    Sex

    Another update regarding the Butlers in the tree: I was researching locations in northern Midlands and came across a town called Butlersbridge (or sometimes Butler's Bridge) in Cavan. It turns out this town and another called Belturbet to the north were founded by a man named Stephen Butler, from England. They seem to be different from the Norman Butlers from Kilkenny/Tipperary, though I'm not sure yet how they got the name Butler. They eventually became Lords and then Earls of Lanesborough in Cavan. Here is some info about them:http://lordbelmontinnorthernireland....ugh-lodge.html

    At any rate, this branch of Butlers could account for some of the Butlers in our tree. I still think the big cluster of Butlers probably comes from Tipperary/Kilkenny, but perhaps the one in between Nixon and Peters is from this Cavan Butlers, as those names are more common in Ulster?

    Also, I was thinking that the Canadys in our tree represent Tipperary, and that still may be the case, but I noticed in Pender's 1659 Census that there were Kenedys in Longford. Richard Kenedy gent. was gentry in Granard, and and there were 5 Irish Kenedys in Longford Barony.

    On the one hand this shows how hard it is to draw conclusions from surnames alone, but on the other hand it shows that if we continue to research and share data points we may eventually find explanations for the patterns in the data.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to IrishMorgan For This Useful Post:

     Muircheartaigh (08-17-2015)

  3. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    15
    Sex
    Omitted
    Ethnicity
    Irish/more
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1a4b3a
    mtDNA
    H2a1

    We now know that a Z253 >L1066 (ISOGG 2017: R1b1a1a2a1a2b1e) individual was buried, estimated 1500 - 1300 BCE, near the southern shore of the Firth of Forth, in the location that is presently known as the village of Longniddry, East Lothian Council, Scotland.

    The Beaker Phenomenon And The Genomic Transformation Of Northwest Europe
    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...35962.full.pdf

    Location on Map:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longni...cation_map.svg
    Last edited by Nic Fiachra; 05-25-2017 at 06:36 PM.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Nic Fiachra For This Useful Post:

     CannabisErectusHibernius (06-04-2017)

  5. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    14
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Nic Fiachra View Post
    We now know that a Z253 >L1066 (ISOGG 2017: R1b1a1a2a1a2b1e) individual was buried, estimated 1500 - 1300 BCE, near the southern shore of the Firth of Forth, in the location that is presently known as the village of Longniddry, East Lothian Council, Scotland.

    The Beaker Phenomenon And The Genomic Transformation Of Northwest Europe
    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...35962.full.pdf

    Location on Map:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longni...cation_map.svg
    Interesting. How do we know that? I scanned/searched the Beaker article, but didn't see mention of L1066.

  6. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,197
    Sex
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ethnicity
    Pictland/Deira
    Y-DNA
    R1b-M222-FGC5864
    mtDNA
    H5r*

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishMorgan View Post
    Interesting. How do we know that? I scanned/searched the Beaker article, but didn't see mention of L1066.
    You should read the supplementary material.
    sample I2653
    tables 1 and 3.

    I2653 GENSCOT22 Petrous M H2a1a R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e2b3a1 574585 1240k capture This study Bones/Teeth No half Britain_Bronze_Age Scotland_MBA Yes 1500–1300 BCE Scotland, Longniddry, Evergreen

    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e2b3a1:CTS1202.1:7265766A->C;
    etc
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019) - further WGS tests pending ;-)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
    Hidden Content
    FBIMatch: A828783 (autosomal DNA) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MacUalraig For This Useful Post:

     Dubhthach (05-26-2017),  IrishMorgan (05-27-2017)

  8. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    14
    Sex

    Thanks -- that's a good data point for us. Looking at The Big Tree, I can see that L1066 is parallel to the S844/A17 subclade that I am part of, and have been puzzling over for the last couple years. Since it is a parallel branch it's not a perfect data point, but still it supports our working theory that S844 originated in Scotland and then moved into Ireland at some point. The big question now is when?

    Last year we got a new member of our subclade named Bisset, who is now the first branch off our tree. His paternal line comes from Scotland. By the time we get a couple levels down to S845 it's pretty clear that S845 was well established in central Ireland. In between S844 and S845 is a little more nebulous.

    Here is what we look like on the Big Tree: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php...952&star=false

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 60
    Last Post: 09-16-2018, 12:42 AM
  2. Migrations of K, L and T
    By newtoboard in forum K
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-24-2018, 01:46 AM
  3. Replies: 343
    Last Post: 12-17-2017, 09:15 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-04-2014, 04:45 PM
  5. Replies: 72
    Last Post: 01-22-2014, 11:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •