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Thread: Y15121: Prussian-Sri Lankan subclade within R1a-Z2123

  1. #21
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    Artmar - I am 103319 from Delaware, USA. My most distant ancestor, at this time, is Thomas Wyatt from Bristol, Gloucestershire, England. FTDNA shows me as 56% British Isles, 31% Scandanavia, and 13% Southern & Western Europe.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulgill View Post
    Just listen to Parasar or Igmayka they will give you right advice, you are in good hands now. Z2123 for me appears to be Indo-Aryans/Indo-Iranian, but it could be Kushans/Scythians too, they are all cousins, anyways. Are you a Jatt, Gujjar or Rajput?
    I don't think its a surprise that Kushans/Scythians are shown with Turanid/Mongoloid facial types on ancient coins and busts, and it should be mentioned that Z2125 (ancestor of Z2123) is a primarily Turkic haplogroup. North India, especially Gujjarat is well-known for Turkic-influenced regions.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardoni View Post
    I don't think its a surprise that Kushans/Scythians are shown with Turanid/Mongoloid facial types on ancient coins and busts, and it should be mentioned that Z2125 (ancestor of Z2123) is a primarily Turkic haplogroup. North India, especially Gujjarat is well-known for Turkic-influenced regions.
    Don't know where I have to start. Yes some Kushan, Scythians were mongolid and turanid but actually most coins, facial types and busts show Caucasoid types. Ancient sources describe them as mainly Caucasoid looking also. All R1a-Z93 among Turks is from absorbed /assimilated Indo-Iranians. Maybe some very deep clades are exclusively Turkic today but there is no major and older clade of R1a-Z93 which could be old enough to predate Turkic contact with Iranics.The Turkic genetic impact in India is basically close to zero and please don't tell me that Tajiks, Kalash , Pashtuns are mainly R1a-Z93 (Z2125,..) because of Turkic influences.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 07-10-2016 at 07:44 AM.

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  6. #24
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    United States of America Scotland
    My origins has me at 98% British Isles, 2% Eastern Middle East. Could the 2% be the original source for my R-Y15121? Geno Project breakdown 97% Britain, Ireland, Scotland; 2% Arabia.

    Positive for R1a-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2125>Z2123>Y934>Y15121. Maybe in the future, the origin of R-Y15121 will be established.

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardoni View Post
    I don't think its a surprise that Kushans/Scythians are shown with Turanid/Mongoloid facial types on ancient coins and busts, and it should be mentioned that Z2125 (ancestor of Z2123) is a primarily Turkic haplogroup. North India, especially Gujjarat is well-known for Turkic-influenced regions.
    Z2125 is thousands (about 2,000) of years older than anything remotely Turkic. Moreover, all that mumbo-jumbo about "facial types" makes about as much as sense as what you said about Z2125 and India... That is to say, not much.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 07-10-2016 at 03:43 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardoni View Post
    I don't think its a surprise that Kushans/Scythians are shown with Turanid/Mongoloid facial types on ancient coins and busts, and it should be mentioned that Z2125 (ancestor of Z2123) is a primarily Turkic haplogroup. North India, especially Gujjarat is well-known for Turkic-influenced regions.
    Gujarat to Khotan was indeed the Saka belt, but to accept that Gujarat was Turkic influenced is beyond my comprehension.

    I agree with you that some of the Kushan had an Turki/Mongoloid imprint. Their home base for centuries had been central Asia, Nepal, and W. Tibet so that is to be expected.

  11. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Z2125 is thousands (about 2,000) of years older than anything remotely Turkic. Moreover, all that mumbo-jumbo about "facial types" makes about as much as sense as what you said about Z2125 and India... That is to say, not much.
    I suspect Turks existed well before what is normally accepted.

    Fully agree about the facial types.

  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I suspect Turks existed well before what is normally accepted.

    Fully agree about the facial types.
    Common Turkic was more or less contemporary with Proto-Germanic, it broke up circa 450 BCE, Proto-Bulgaro-Turkic (the common ancestor of Common Turkic and Lir Turkic) broke up 300 years prior to the disintegration of Common Turkic so some time around 800 BCE at best. There's no way around this really, so Z2125 is thousands of years older than anything remotely Turkic.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  14. #29
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    YFull also has samples from modern Poland, from Podlaskie and Pomorskie voivodeships:

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y15121/

  15. #30
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    As for Proto-Turks, I think that they were mostly C, Q and N1c.

    Here are ancient DNA samples of Xiongnu/Hunnu haplogroups:

    Places of origin of samples:

    1) Egin Gol river valley cemetery in Mongolia
    2) Duurling Nars cemetery in Mongolia
    3) Barköl cemetery in Xinjiang, China
    4) Birlik cemetery in Kazakhstan

    Paternal lineages:

    East Asian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 82%):

    Haplo C2e - 3
    Haplo C2 - 7
    Haplo C - 1
    Haplo Q1a2 - 3
    Haplo Q1a3a - 3
    Haplo Q1b - 1
    Haplo N1c-Tat - 3
    Haplo O3a2 - 1

    West Eurasian Y-DNA haplogroups (ca. 18%):

    Haplo R1a - 3
    Haplo R1b - 1
    Haplo I2c - 1

    Maternal lineages:

    East Asian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 83%):

    Haplo D4 - 19
    Haplo D4o1 - 9
    Haplo D5a - 1
    Haplo D5 - 1
    Haplo C - 4
    Haplo C4a1 - 1
    Haplo C5 - 1
    Haplo F1b - 4
    Haplo G2a - 1
    Haplo G2 - 1
    Haplo B4 - 1

    Uncertain origin mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 3%):

    Haplo M - 2

    West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups (ca. 14%):

    Haplo U5a1a - 2
    Haplo U2e1 - 1
    Haplo U2 - 1
    Haplo J1 - 2
    Haplo H - 1

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