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Thread: Allentoft's Yamna I2a

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    Allentoft's Yamna I2a

    Figure 1 indicates that some of the Yamna individuals (at least 1, but I don't have access to the article) buried in the heartland between Don and Volga were (was) I2a. Any comments?

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    Subject to correction by experts.== It seems to me that the Yamna I2a does not represent "Trypilian" into-steppe migration (which the Allentoft paper apparently accepts). And judging by the spare information given in Figure 2, it is quite different from the Remedello BA I2a, and probably from the Hungarian BA samples. This Yamna I2a does not have any measurable genetic "farmerisms". I would hence think that it is also not of Usatovo descent. But if this is so, then we possibly might have a very interesting situation here. That of a HG who joined the PIE development directly from the HG stage.== We absolutely need further ancient DNA from the areas neglected by the Haak and Allentoft enterprises.

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    Why shouldn't I2 be native to the region? It had contact with Central Europe in the Paleolithic (Gravettian particularly). Many people have suggested that R came in from the east quite late, in the Late Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic.
    Last edited by Megalophias; 06-12-2015 at 05:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Why shouldn't I2 be native to the region? It had contact with Central Europe in the Paleolithic (Gravettian particularly). Many people have suggested that R came in from the east quite late, in the Late Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic.
    Which is the older I2 , steppe, hungarian or remendello ones?


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+, Y349970+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Why shouldn't I2 be native to the region? It had contact with Central Europe in the Paleolithic (Gravettian particularly). Many people have suggested that R came in from the east quite late, in the Late Upper Paleolithic or Mesolithic.
    Anthrogenica experts are very busy decoding the info from Allentoft with respect to those Y markers which are of particular interest to them. Eventually someone will get to the Yamna results. This will give some preliminary answers. I believe Eurogenes' Davidski is also planning some analysis for next week.

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    The I2 branches have already been identified:
    RISE247 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L368
    RISE254 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L59

    Hungary belong to I2a2a, old I2b. It is mentoined in the paper that during the Middle Bronze age a back migration from West to East is observed. This very well explains the I2b finds among Tartars and as far East as Pakistan.

    Regarding the I2 from Italy they are the "Sardianian" I2a1 type found before in Neolithic remains.

    RISE486 Italy Remedello I2a1a1a-L672/S327

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    The I2 branches have already been identified:
    RISE247 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L368
    RISE254 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L59

    Hungary belong to I2a2a, old I2b. It is mentoined in the paper that during the Middle Bronze age a back migration from West to East is observed. This very well explains the I2b finds among Tartars and as far East as Pakistan.

    Regarding the I2 from Italy they are the "Sardianian" I2a1 type found before in Neolithic remains.

    RISE486 Italy Remedello I2a1a1a-L672/S327
    And it seems (see post#360 in the main Allentoft thread) that the Yamna I2a is L-699. Part of M223 like the two Vatyas, but with no EEF autosomal component.

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    Just a thought: it may solve the oft-repeated question as to why uniparental markers in Sardinia (that is, I2a1) "don't match the autosomal DNA" (being EEF), to just imagine that I2a1-M26 was NOT necessarily in Europe during the WHG times in great numbers, but that the mass migrations were of the Cardial people, who had already picked up farming. In other words, that I2a1 is one of the few I2 clades that is not representative of WHG.

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    The I2a is likely Catacomb, not Yamnaya. Ulan IV is a Catacomb burial. Stalingrad Quarry R1b is likely a Catacomb too. I am digging into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    RISE247 Hungary Vatya I2a2a-L368
    YFull lists L368 at the I-M436 level, which includes both I-M223 and I-L38. But I don't know whether they specifically found L368+ in a verified I-L38 sample.
    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    RISE486 Italy Remedello I2a1a1a-L672/S327
    YFull lists L672 in about 30 different positions on the haplotree, so it's quite unreliable unless M26+ is also present.

    In general, these low-quality ancient samples that have no Y-STRs require far greater caution in classification than most of us use in dealing with modern FTDNA accounts. Every SNP should be checked against YFull (or a similar full-Y database) to ensure that it is found in no more than one or two positions on the haplotree--otherwise it is unreliable except perhaps if the context is restricted by other reliable SNPs.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 06-14-2015 at 02:45 PM.

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