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Thread: Request: Y-DNA haplogroup results from Allentoft 2015

  1. #181
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    RISE577's (Unetice) results are very close to those of the modern NW Europeans

    K36 ( Eurogenes)

    Basque 2.72%
    Central_Euro 1.77%
    East_Balkan 4.58%
    East_Central_Euro 3.57%
    Eastern_Euro 3.66%
    Fennoscandian 9.21%
    French 10.22%
    Iberian 14.81%
    Italian 5.07%
    North_Atlantic 18.45%
    North_Sea 21.42%
    West_Med 4.53%

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    So... where the heck is Z283 hiding?
    I'm not sure we'll see Z283 being tested. Z282 is more likely, and that's younger than Z283 and Z93, so it's probably too young for the Corded Ware period, and European specific, so it's unlikely to be seen in Asia.

    One of the Late Bronze Age German samples from Haak et al. was Z280, which obviously also means Z282. It was one of the Urnfield genomes, I think.

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  5. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    I've got it organized here.
    That's very handy Krefter.

    PS Could you please remove my name from RISE94? I'm not a separate source. I'm just a collator. I have been noting results from other members of the community in addition to Felix and Genetiker. That's all. When I have confirmation from at least two people, I'm putting the result into my usual online aDNA tables. I give preference to people who can be identified by real name. That's pretty much a minimum in scholarly work. Reputation counts too.
    Last edited by Jean M; 06-20-2015 at 10:42 AM.

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  7. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuadha View Post
    . . .

    The obvious source of western r1b is hungarian yamnaya, who's brothers keep showing up as r1b . . .
    That is my suspicion, as well, although I am open to the possibility that R1b got into Beaker via Corded Ware, particularly if Don Ringe is right and Italo-Celtic and Germanic belonged to the same early branch off of PIE.

    I also think it unlikely that R1b-U106 was ever part of Beaker but instead was a kind of fellow traveler with R1a around the east and north sides of the Carpathians and onto the North European Plain.

    Anyway, I think P312 at least stemmed directly from Yamnaya in the Carpathian Basin via one of its hybrid spin-off cultures, some of whom no doubt were there before or contemporaneously with Yamnaya but who received Yamnaya input, both cultural and genetic. Gimbutas, for example, attributed the genesis of Beaker to Vucedol, Somogyvar, and Zok-Mako. Here are a couple of pics that I think make things a bit more clear.

    Carpathian Basin 3rd Millennium Kulcsar and Szeverenyi.jpg

    Carpathian Basin 3rd Millennium Kulcsar and Szeverenyi Cross Footed Bowls p 76.jpg
    Last edited by rms2; 06-20-2015 at 12:15 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  9. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    One of the Late Bronze Age German samples from Haak et al. was Z280, which obviously also means Z282. It was one of the Urnfield genomes, I think.
    That's right. Halberstadt [HAL 36].

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  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    One of the Late Bronze Age German samples from Haak et al. was Z280, which obviously also means Z282. It was one of the Urnfield genomes, I think.
    That's right. Halberstadt [HAL 36].
    Yes that R1a Z280 was a sample from one of westernmost sites of the Lusatian Culture, near Halberstadt.

    The Lusatian Culture was part of the Urnfield horizon (one of Urnfield cultures):



    Perhaps the most impressive of all sites of the Lusatian Culture discovered so far, is Biskupin in Poland:

    http://www.biskupin.pl/asp/en_start....=303&schemat=0

    A documentary about Biskupin (in English): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc_KLJrD054

    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-20-2015 at 01:06 PM.

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  13. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Yes that R1a Z280 was a sample from one of westernmost sites of the Lusatian Culture, near Halberstadt.
    In fact we have no evidence whatever that this was a Lusatian burial. The claim that it was seems extremely popular among parts of the online community, but it is not supported by a single fact. The location of Halberstadt might place this sample just on the edge of the Lausitz zone, but without specific identifying characteristics with the remains, we cannot allocate it to any particular Urnfield zone.

    Furthermore, though the burial was described as Urnfield in Haak 2015, because its date falls in that period, it is completely atypical. Urnfield is characterised by cremation burials in urns. HAL 36 was an inhumation in a former LBK graveyard. So it was most likely the burial of a non-Urnfield wanderer whose companions recognised the site as an old graveyard. Some Baltic-speaker trading amber or other goods far from home would fit the picture.

    From Haak 2015, supplement:

    I0099/HAL36C (grave 40, feature 1114, 1113-1021 calBCE, MAMS 21484)
    was buried in right-handed flexed position, head SSW, facing SE. Two decorated LBK pots and two undecorated globular pots were found above the grave but it was not clear whether they were part of the burial or the back filling. Thus, the skeleton was also originally thought to be part of the LBK burial series found at the same site, but subsequent radiocarbon dating performed for this study indicated a much younger date, placing this individual within the Late Bronze Age Urnfield culture of the Mittelelbe-Saale region.
    Last edited by Jean M; 06-20-2015 at 01:31 PM.

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  15. #188
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    Thanks for the info. But Baltic language did not exist 3100 years ago, rather it was Proto-Balto-Slavic.

    According to Chang et al. 2015, Proto-Balto-Slavic split into Proto-Baltic and Proto-Slavic about 2600 years ago:

    http://www.linguisticsociety.org/fil...AlPreprint.pdf



    Though of course such estimates are always highly speculative and very approximate at best.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-20-2015 at 01:35 PM.

  16. #189
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    it is completely atypical. Urnfield is characterised by cremation burials in urns.
    On the other hand, inhumation burials were found in Lusatian cultural context already before (even though cremation was more frequent). Especially in the "Upper Silesia - Lesser Poland Group" (Czestochowa-Gliwice) of the Lusatian Culture inhumation burials were very frequent.

    I guess we need to wait for more samples from the Lusatian Culture to see if more Z280 (and M458) shows up.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-20-2015 at 02:00 PM.

  17. #190
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    Thank you for making this consolidation list. I see now that there are 31 R1b Samples. Its almost a magical feeling!

    MJost
    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1’s father’s sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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