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Thread: Are these real J* cases?

  1. #1
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    Are these real J* cases?

    On J-P209's Wikipedia page, it is written:

    "Paragroup J-P209*

    Paragroup J-P209*[Phylogenetics 1] includes all of J-P209 except for J-M267 and J-M172. J-P209* is rarely found outside of the island of Socotra, off the coast of Yemen, where it is quite frequent at 71.4%.[5] Haplogroup J-P209* also has been found with lower frequency in Oman (Giacomo 2004), Ashkenazi Jews,[6] Saudi Arabia (Abu-Amero 2009), Greece (Giacomo 2004), the Czech Republic (Giacomo 2004 and Luca 2007), Uygurs [7] and several Turkic peoples.[8] (Cinnioglu 2004 and Varzari 2006)".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J-P209

    Since I'm not up to date with J-P209's phylogeny, are these real cases of J* or not?

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     DMXX (06-13-2015)

  3. #2
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    You have to check the individual studies to see if they actually tested for J1* or J2*. In some older studies (or even poor newer ones) you'll see them test for let's say J, and J1c3...and that's it. So if it's J2b....then it just gets reported as J. This goes for any y-haplogroup really.

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  5. #3
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    The Soqotri J* is quite interesting and could potentially change our understanding of J's history... It's a shame no one is looking into this right now.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    J-P209 is only one SNP in the long line of J SNPs before the J1/J2 bifurcation. Genetic genealogy is a kind of exact-hard science and facts will always emerge sooner or later. J and specially J1 are among the most complex geopolitical haplogroups and the full sequence of basal IJ, J and J1 reported types are not attracting interests.
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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    The Soqotri J* is quite interesting and could potentially change our understanding of J's history... It's a shame no one is looking into this right now.
    Yes the J* present in Socotra is actually very interesting. It is probably related to a very early expansion of J men from the Arabian plate to Socotra in very ancient times. It is like looking into the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Yes the J* present in Socotra is actually very interesting. It is probably related to a very early expansion of J men from the Arabian plate to Socotra in very ancient times. It is like looking into the past.
    There is some J (xJ1,J2) in some Ethiopian groups today

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     Agamemnon (07-05-2015)

  13. #7
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passa View Post
    There is some J (xJ1,J2) in some Ethiopian groups today
    Interesting...Do you know exactly which Ethiopian groups?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Passa View Post
    There is some J (xJ1,J2) in some Ethiopian groups today
    I think it's safe to say that most of it might actually be J1.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Interesting...Do you know exactly which Ethiopian groups?
    At the moment I'm too sleepy to check. Tomorrow.

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     paulgill (07-14-2015)

  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Interesting...Do you know exactly which Ethiopian groups?
    Mostly Afroasiatic-speaking groups, such as the [North] Omotic-speaking Shekecho, Kefa & Yem, the Cushitic-speaking Afar, Agew and Oromo as well as the Ethiosemitic-speaking Amhara and Gurage (in that order). Since we can already assume most of it is J1, it is important to determine which J1 branches are to be found in these groups as it could have important implications for J1's history as well as its relationship to the dispersal of AA languages. I already suspect the Afar won't be very diverse, since their nomadic lifestyle isn't exactly diversity-friendly - something we observe in other J1-rich nomadic groups - but I could be wrong.
    I already said it before, I'll say it again: As long as East African J1 remains unstudied, I'll always get the impression we're missing an important part of J1's history.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 07-10-2015 at 01:15 AM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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