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Thread: Steppe populations had brown eyes

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    Steppe populations had brown eyes

    Going from dienekes' blog, steppe populations appear to have had brown eyes. If the Neolithic people were also brown eyed then what is the source for blue eyes in Europe? Is it WHG? But weren't they largely replaced?

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/...an-steppe.html
    Last edited by avalon; 06-15-2015 at 07:22 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Going from dienekes' blog, steppe populations appear to have had brown eyes. If the Neolithic people were also brown eyed then what is the source for blue eyes in Europe? Is it WHG? But weren't they largely replaced?

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/...an-steppe.html
    WHG werent replaces they were absorbed, but, the blue eyed mutation occured after most of the mixing happened, in response to lack of vitamin D in agricultural based diet

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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    If the Neolithic people were also brown eyed then what is the source for blue eyes in Europe?
    The ancient DNA page of the Ancestral Journeys web site tells the tale:
    - European hunter-gatherers of 8000 years ago--in Luxembourg, Sweden, and Spain--had blue eyes
    - Hungarian farmers of 7800-4300 years ago had blue eyes
    - Russian pastoralists of 3800 years ago had blue or green eyes

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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Going from dienekes' blog, steppe populations appear to have had brown eyes. If the Neolithic people were also brown eyed then what is the source for blue eyes in Europe? Is it WHG? But weren't they largely replaced?

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/...an-steppe.html
    WHG was "replaced" only in the sense of surrendering its place as the sole population of Europe. It had to make room, first, for the EEF-bearing, Near Eastern-derived Neolithic farming population, and then for the ANE-bearing steppe pastoralists who brought in Indo-European languages.

    Europeans largely derive from these three populations. There is still plenty of y-haplogroup I and mtDNA haplogroup U5 representing WHG uniparental markers, not to mention all the WHG autosomal dna most of us still carry.

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    We know Mesolithic Europeans La Braña and Louschbour had blue eyes. As for the looks of the Yamnayans/PIE, it'd be interesting to have more testing, a genetic reconstruction so to say. People like Gimbutas and Anthony often referred to the "proto europoid" configuration of the PIE as opposed to the "mediterranean" anatomy of Old Europeans. On this they were remarkably right as Neolithic Europeans are closest to contemporary Sardinians, and they were once spread all over (from Sweden to Hungary and Germany, f.e). We also know Yamnayans were remarkably tall and so were their intruding remains in Europe. I really wonder what they looked like. More extensive DNA testing would help.

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    Just as an aside and a personal comment, I always thought the golden-haired, blue eyed "Aryan" thing was a bit goofy and unlikely to be true. It always struck me as more the fantasy of some sort of idealized hero worship than anything else.

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    So, any idea how green eyes came to be? Where? And where they are most common?

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    There are blonde and blue-eyed EEFs also, like NE7, Gok2, then NE4 could also be, and we know that EEFs are part WHG/UHG, so it had to come from them.

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    There seems to have been a big absorbing of WHGs after the first flushes of separation when farmers arrived. It is a large component in a lot of Europe and they appear to have carried blue eyes. ANE is a relatively small component in most places. Clearly too by the time steppe influences reached the north and north-west they had passed through a lot of territory, a lot of it with CW peoples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Going from dienekes' blog, steppe populations appear to have had brown eyes. If the Neolithic people were also brown eyed then what is the source for blue eyes in Europe? Is it WHG? But weren't they largely replaced?

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/...an-steppe.html
    Pre-Historic Hirisplex.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8fZIAV0uo/edit

    Go to the "Eye Color" section for each. Neolithic Central-North Europeans(Hungary, Sweden, Germany) were almost 50% blue eyed. The natives that Yamnaya-types mixed with in much of Europe had much more WHG than the genomes we currently have. So, the Pre-Yamnaya people of much of Europe were mostly blue eyed.

    It is very clear that blue eye color in Europe(I don't know about West Asia, etc.) comes from Mesolithic WHG. And that Brown eyes come from Neolithic East Mediterranean(Cardiel, LBK, etc.) and Bronze age Steppe people(like Yamnaya).

    After mostly brown eyed(~90%) Yamnaya types mixed with mostly blue eyed natives in Europe, their mixed descendants(Corded Ware, Unetice, Nordic LN/BA, etc.) (the ones samples so far)were mostly brown eyed. Later what probably occurred is blue eyes became a slight majority in most of Northern Europe because of natural selection. Sintashta/Andronovo were immigrants from Europe. They were probably more non-Yamnaya than Yamnaya. Their blue eyes also came from WHG-admixed EEFs.

    Brown eyes are probably much more popular in South Europe because of natural selection. Neolithic Spanish so far have come out 100% brown eyed, while their brothers in Central Europe were about 50% blue eyed. So, maybe for some reason in Neolithic South Europe brown eyes had a survival advantage. Ultimately their brown eyes though probably mostly come from Neolithic East Mediterranean.

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