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Thread: Were Myceneans lineages R1b or R1a

  1. #21
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    There's supposed to be Sintashta-related influence in Mycenaean Greece. So I won't be surprised if we see some R1a-Z93.

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  3. #22
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    A documentary on the Mycenaeans:


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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    There's supposed to be Sintashta-related influence in Mycenaean Greece. So I won't be surprised if we see some R1a-Z93.
    There is some R1a-Z93 still in Greece and even in Italy. Of course insignificant and just in tiny amounts but it was found there. Interestingly the rare Y40 subclade of Z93 was found in Tuscany and outside of India and Afghanistan it is absent anywhere else. Also it is unlikely related to later scythians/sarmatians who were Z2124 . The linguistic similarities between Proto-Greek and Proto-Indo-Iranian show that there must be some contacts between them and for example R1b-Z2103 is not so rare in the Iranic-speaking world but could have other Indo-European sources of course.

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interestingly the rare Y40 subclade of Z93 was found in Tuscany and outside of India and Afghanistan it is absent anywhere else.
    Actually, clade Y40>YP294 (parental to the Tuscan subclade Z96) seems to be more common in West Asia (or in a region encompassing Turkey, Iraq and the Gulf region) than in Southern Europe. Since Y40 has not been found in Eastern Europe so far, while it seems to be most common in India, one may hypothesize that Y40>YP294 has been brought to West Asia with the Mitanni Aryans, although this scenario should be considered very speculative until more data are available.

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    Actually, clade Y40>YP294 (parental to the Tuscan subclade Z96) seems to be more common in West Asia (or in a region encompassing Turkey, Iraq and the Gulf region) than in Southern Europe. Since Y40 has not been found in Eastern Europe so far, while it seems to be most common in India, one may hypothesize that Y40>YP294 has been brought to West Asia with the Mitanni Aryans, although this scenario should be considered very speculative until more data are available.
    Interesting I thought Y40 was not found in West Asia yet. Can you link studies or ftdna results which show Y40 or YP294 in West Asia? I know that it was found among Burusho and that one South Indian and some Afghans were positive for it. But if it present in West Asia than it could of course arrive with later Iron Age migrations from West Asia into South Europe(Etruscans?,...)
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 01-25-2016 at 11:46 AM.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Can you link studies or ftdna results which show Y40+ in West Asia?
    Please visit our R1a project's Results page: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults (you will find Y40 on page 7).
    Also, here is a link to the relevant part of the YFull tree: http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y40/

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  13. #27
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    Are any of those above examples Y40*?

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    Are any of those above examples Y40*?
    I believe all are either YP294 or Y37 or downstream not tested.
    As you are negative for both YP294 and Y37, you would be on a parallel line.

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  17. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I believe all are either YP294 or Y37 or downstream not tested.
    As you are negative for both YP294 and Y37, you would be on a parallel line.
    In the R1a project, there are three confirmed or predicted Y40 members who haven't been tested for Y37 yet, so some of them may turn out to be Y40(xY37,YP294), just like Reza.

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  19. #30
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    I know we see the odd, single Greek with Z93 - probably descendants of Hellenized Anatolians and those with remote or recent ancestry from Middle Age South Asia. But the big picture suggests that either (a) Myceneans had no Z93, or (b) Mycenean Greek were virtually wholly replaced. Whilst the latter is about 30% true, the parasiminous hypothesis at present would be that bronze Age Balkan IEs had no R1a, but were composed of R1b-Z2013, J2b and I2a2.
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 02-29-2016 at 10:35 AM.

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