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Thread: Eastern European in Brits on AC

  1. #1
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    Eastern European in Brits on AC

    Hi,
    This is a post I put on 23andme, I would also be interested in what people here have to say as I am very much on the fence about it! I have been told it is unusual.

    My Dad is British and gets 1.1% Eastern European across two of his chromosomes on AC. From what I can tell, his Eastern European scores at Gedmatch don't appear to be anything unusual eg Dodecad v3 he gets 11.91% and Eurogenes EUTest k15 v2 he gets Baltic 14.24% and 7.78% Eastern European.
    I have compared his scores to someone who is 1/8 Lithuanian 7/8 English and this person only gets marginally higher scores, so in terms of how well these calculators pick it up when it is diluted I suppose is questionable. I am waiting for a reply from this person about their score on AC. The segments appear on chromosome paintings and of the 28 British profiles I share with none get any Eastern European over 0.1%.

    My Dad has lots of "Eastern European" segments on Countries of Ancestry that overlap each other, for example he has 3 people overlap of Belorussian ancestry and one of these areas appears to be where one segment is picked up on AC. I have not noticed this occur on the other British profiles I manage. Compared to them, his scores of Russian and Polish exceed 1% at 4GPs 5cM, comparable to someone he shares with who is 1/8 Polish 7/8 Colonial American (this person gets 0.5% Eastern European on AC and 1% Russian and 0.7% Poland on CoA).

    He also gets 0.9% 4GPs declared AJ (I'm not suggesting AJ ancestry here but rather them having some Eastern European ancestry although he does get 0.1% AJ on AC).

    He does have some brick walls, the most recent being his Great Grandmother who I think was illegitimate (either that or she really did marry her biological Uncle!!!). My Dad apart from the brick walls is 100% British, mostly English from central England with a Great Great Great Grandmother who was Irish. Even if this Eastern European was real how on earth would it get to central England assuming the ancestor was Dad's x4/x5 Great Grandparent? I don't think there were many Eastern Europeans in Britain around 1700-1850? It doesn't seem to add up with what I have found on British history.
    Do any other Brits get similar scores and if so have you been able to trace an Eastern European ancestor or can anyone help with my history of Britain?!

    Even if you don't have similar ancestry, comments would be appreciated particularly about whether it could be real and how well it is detected on AC. Many thanks.

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  3. #2
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    It is likely that the two segments "east-European", come from the Indo-European times. Many genes Eastern Europe came to Western Europe via the Corded ware and other cultures that followed.

    I'm not british, but Northwestern french
    I also have an "east-European" segment in chromosome 6.
    In Country of ancestry, people who have the same segment are from Eastern Europe (except Italy):
    Poland, Norway, Ukraine, Sweden, Romania, Russia, Croatia, Estonia, Czech, Bosnia, Serbia, Italy

    For comparison:
    0.6% Eastern-European AC (1 segment)
    Country of Ancestry (4GP, 5cM): Poland: 0.9%, Ukraine 0.4%, Romania 0.4%, Russia 0.3%, Estonia 0.2%, ect .
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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  5. #3
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    Wow that's a long time ago, I didn't realise this test went that far back!! I know it says 500 years but I thought realistically maybe 1000 years but had no idea it could go that far back! Just out of interest, is it possible your segment is on the "sticky" area of chr 6? My Dad gets 0.1% Yakut on chr 6 and I know a lot of people get odd scores there, a search for “Ancestry composition noise/glitch for a lot of results on chr 6” brings up examples. I'd be interested to see if it does appear there for you or not.
    Last edited by Boudicca; 07-05-2015 at 07:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
    Even if this Eastern European was real how on earth would it get to central England assuming the ancestor was Dad's x4/x5 Great Grandparent? I don't think there were many Eastern Europeans in Britain around 1700-1850? It doesn't seem to add up with what I have found on British history.
    According to this reference:
    ---
    In 1834 there were estimated to be 400 Polish refugees living in Britain.
    ---

    Nonzero, but a very small number.

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    Ok these segments seem to appear as "East Med" or "West Asian" on the Gedmatch paintings for Dodecad v3 and Eurogenes k13?! His scores for these ARE higher than "typical" Brits on the calculators. His MENA is supported nicely by corresponding painting results but is it possible AC could be mistaking the EE for something more dare I say it "Balkan"?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
    Ok these segments seem to appear as "East Med" or "West Asian" on the Gedmatch paintings for Dodecad v3 and Eurogenes k13?! His scores for these ARE higher than "typical" Brits on the calculators. His MENA is supported nicely by corresponding painting results but is it possible AC could be mistaking the EE for something more dare I say it "Balkan"?!
    That's not exactly surprising considering the fact that he gets 0.9% AJ.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boudicca View Post
    Wow that's a long time ago, I didn't realise this test went that far back!! I know it says 500 years but I thought realistically maybe 1000 years but had no idea it could go that far back! Just out of interest, is it possible your segment is on the "sticky" area of chr 6? My Dad gets 0.1% Yakut on chr 6 and I know a lot of people get odd scores there, a search for “Ancestry composition noise/glitch for a lot of results on chr 6” brings up examples. I'd be interested to see if it does appear there for you or not.
    I do not know what it is "sticky area".
    The segment on chromosome 6 extends from the position 139000000 to 152000000.
    With HarappaWorld, in this particular segment, gives me an atypical result, probably Indo-European (Yamnaya) with 23.81% Baloch:

    Chromosome# 6 Position: 139006406 to 151998263
    window size: 1009 SNPs | 12.99Mb

    1.85% S-Indian
    23.81% Baloch
    26.73% Caucasian
    13.39% NE-Euro
    4.20% SE-Asian
    0.00% Siberian
    0.01% NE-Asian
    0.00% Papuan
    0.00% American
    0.00% Beringian
    24.83% Mediterranean
    5.18% SW-Asian
    0.00% San
    0.00% E-African
    0.00% Pygmy
    0.00% W-African
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

  11. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    That's not exactly surprising considering the fact that he gets 0.9% AJ.
    But he gets no actual Balkan on AC?! His Southern European overall is only 0.2%! Even his 0.1% AJ on AC at Gedmatch appears Middle Eastern so what on earth is the 1.1% EE supposed to be lol?!
    On chr 3 where he gets one large segment of EE and his MENA on AC his chromosome percentages at Gedmatch are:
    North Atlantic 30.4%
    Baltic 28.5%
    East Med 17.1%
    West Med 15.9%
    West Asian 3.1%
    Red Sea 2.2%
    SSA 2.0%
    That's nearly a quarter of that chromosome pulling to the MENA region!!

    Chr 4 where he has his AJ is:
    East Med 8.2%
    West Asian 3.3%
    Red Sea 3.6%

    And chr 6 where his EE appears is:
    East Med 19.3% second highest after Atlantic!!!!

    I have a head ache!!
    Last edited by Boudicca; 07-06-2015 at 07:03 AM.

  12. #9
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    Hmm just found Dad's x5 Great Grandparents' surnames were Spademan and Surgey...could they be Eastern European names made to sound a bit more "English" there certainly doesn't seem to be much info on the names!

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  14. #10
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    Also note there are large and significant Polish/Scottish connections. See http://www.krakowpost.com/2014/03/sc...s-in-scotland/

    I think I see this with my full mtdna which that line is all Polish back to early 1800's. All my 1/2 step matches are Polish/Russian and all my 3 step matches are Scottish.

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