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Thread: Needs for the M73 project

  1. #1
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    Needs for the M73 project

    As the lead R1b project administrator I've been trying to coordinate with the larger subclade projects to make sure people in the big R1b project find their way over to the right subclades.

    I've found that there has been no activity (according to FTDNA) for sometime and they are adding me to the project to try to get it updated.

    What do we need to do? What subgroupings do we need? It looks like there should be a M478+ subgrouping.

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  3. #2
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    The existing clustering seems fairly sensible, I could see maybe labeling Cluster B2 more clearly as likely M478+ and the Western European Cluster A as likely M478-; it would be great for some of the members to do BigY to figure out what the M73+ M478- guys are downstream of M73. I haven't looked into the academic literature but that may already be known. It looks like no one from Cluster B1 has tested for M478. The two ungrouped Kxxxx kits are Kazakh kits, would be nice they did more testing. I'm curious how things develop in this area of the tree, particularly with that unusual Cluster A group.

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  5. #3
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    Vineviz was in charge of that project if I remember correctly. I hope he's doing alright.

    Otherwise, I'm sure the community here can help out in any way with the M73 project. It's an important subclade when it comes to Europe and West-Central Asia.

  6. #4
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    I think on one of her posts Jean said M73 had been found but I think it was a brainstorm and she meant Z2103. Maybe Jean can confirm this. I meant to mention this before but kept getting distracted. Its curious that M73 seems to still be hiding but a less successful smaller lineage like that could be hard to uncover in ancient DNA. L51 is still hiding and that looks to be because it did very little expanding until after L11 (prob after 3000BC). So, perhaps there were simply not very many people in these clades regardless of where they were based and that would make them very hard to find in ancient DNA. Its long been recognised since the days of ht35 and 15 that Z2103/eastern R1b is older than L11/western R1b. So the fact Z2103 group has been found earlier in ancient DNA c. 3300-2900BC than the L11 group c. 2700-2200BC is consistent with the idea that the Z2103 group expanded significantly earlier than the only reasonable sized L51 group i.e. L11. This suggests to me that the L51 lineage before L11 simply didnt expand and as a result will be very very hard to find.

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    I think on one of her posts Jean said M73 had been found but I think it was a brainstorm and she meant Z2103. Maybe Jean can confirm this. I meant to mention this before but kept getting distracted. Its curious that M73 seems to still be hiding but a less successful smaller lineage like that could be hard to uncover in ancient DNA. L51 is still hiding and that looks to be because it did very little expanding until after L11 (prob after 3000BC). So, perhaps there were simply not very many people in these clades regardless of where they were based and that would make them very hard to find in ancient DNA. Its long been recognised since the days of ht35 and 15 that Z2103/eastern R1b is older than L11/western R1b. So the fact Z2103 group has been found earlier in ancient DNA c. 3300-2900BC than the L11 group c. 2700-2200BC is consistent with the idea that the Z2103 group expanded significantly earlier than the only reasonable sized L51 group i.e. L11. This suggests to me that the L51 lineage before L11 simply didnt expand and as a result will be very very hard to find.
    The Samara hunter-gatherer was found to be Y13872+ which is an M478 equivalent on the M73 branch.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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