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Thread: Ydna T2 - new creation

  1. #1
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    Ydna T2 - new creation

    Y-DNA Haplogroup T and its Subclades - 2015

    The entire work is identified by the Version Number and date given on the Main Page. Directions for citing the document are given at the bottom of the Main Page.
    Version History Last revision date for this specific page: 14 July 2015


    • T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433

    PH = Pille Hallast, Ph.D., University of Leicester, Department of Genetics, United Kingdom

    seems to be a brand new branch ..........no idea where this will lead


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  3. #2
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    The listed SNPs have been seen in two separate individuals who were previously just T-M184* (i.e. M184+ M70-).
    They are sample bhu-1892 (from Bhutan) in the Hallast et al paper and YFull sample YF03586 (which is also a kit in the T Project, from Armenia). As there is no known recent connection between these two samples the SNPs can be considered non-private. YFull estimates that T1 and T2 split around 26,900 years ago (compared with an age of 15,800 years ago for the three-way split of T-M70).

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethH View Post
    The listed SNPs have been seen in two separate individuals who were previously just T-M184* (i.e. M184+ M70-).
    They are sample bhu-1892 (from Bhutan) in the Hallast et al paper and YFull sample YF03586 (which is also a kit in the T Project, from Armenia). As there is no known recent connection between these two samples the SNPs can be considered non-private. YFull estimates that T1 and T2 split around 26,900 years ago (compared with an age of 15,800 years ago for the three-way split of T-M70).
    Thanks , is the 3 way split, the split of the branches with positive M70, that is ....L162 group, L131 group and lastly the L1255 group ?


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Thanks , is the 3 way split, the split of the branches with positive M70, that is ....L162 group, L131 group and lastly the L1255 group ?
    T-M70 splits into T-L162, T-L131 and T-Y11151. Most of T-Y11151 is T-Y8614 and T-L1255 is one branch of T-Y8614.
    See the "Delta" clusters on the T Project results pages, coloured red at the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethH View Post
    T-M70 splits into T-L162, T-L131 and T-Y11151. Most of T-Y11151 is T-Y8614 and T-L1255 is one branch of T-Y8614.
    See the "Delta" clusters on the T Project results pages, coloured red at the top.
    I cannot see these "delta" in the T project pages, all I see is Alpha, Betta and Gamma

    I do note, that apart from one Armenian all in the project who are DYS390=22 are Europeans only
    Last edited by vettor; 08-03-2015 at 07:56 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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    to clarify ...my Opinion

    LT haplogroup split and T formed somewhere around the Himalayas areas

    T2 ( new branch ) seems to be the next oldest marker- it has no M70 subclade and is found in Armenia to northern Burma areas and lands in-between.

    T1 - next oldest - has no M70 subclade

    T1a - has M70 subclade and seems the youngest in age
    Last edited by vettor; 08-06-2015 at 07:32 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    I cannot see these "delta" in the T project pages, all I see is Alpha, Betta and Gamma

    I do note, that apart from one Armenian all in the project who are DYS390=22 are Europeans only
    Delta are at top of page 1 today

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  12. #8
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    looking at today's
    http://www.yfull.com/tree/T/

    I found that under my line , T-L131 all the suadi, iraq and kuwati all have a TMRCA of less than 1000ybp , why is this when L131 is 11000ybp ?. there is 10000 years missing
    Are these dates from any yfull line accurate?

    BTW my known marker sits under CTS8489 ( but i have not tested with yfull )


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  13. #9
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    If you look at a Haplogroup tree like the one at YFull - http://www.yfull.com/tree/T/ you will find two dates for each sub-haplogroup, a date formed and a date for TMRCA. The TMRCA is always lower - sometimes much lower.
    I would also like to know what they mean.
    But the date formed is usually a much more plausible date.
    It often coincides with the date formed for the next branch down.
    The date at the end of a twig is often questionable - perhaps because there are few people with that sub-haplogroup.
    Is there a guru in the house?

  14. #10
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    OK I think I may have some insight into the problem I posed yesterday.
    Expanding the "see more" on YFull gave some explanations that I am still digesting.
    The "date formed" comes from SNPs down from where the branch diverges.
    TMRCA comes from the differences between those who have tested.
    If not many people have tested, the TMRCA is likely to be low.
    Small number of samples make it also likely to be a big difference between the "date formed" and the TMRCA.

    One thing about the SNP dating is that the rate constant comes from a recent paper by Adamov et al (2015) that can be found by a link from the front page of YFull (down the bottom).
    They use a rather limited number of examples to derive the rate constant.
    Their approach relies partly on checks with an also limited number of ancient DNA samples.
    None of these are in the LT branch.
    While it is probably a reasonable assumption that the LT branch behaves the same, it is an assumption.

    This is certainly a useful contribution and YFull had to start somewhere, but I would expect to see some refinement at a later date.

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