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Thread: Haplogroup R-Z142 and the "Kinman Hypothesis"

  1. #21
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    My apologies, I was confused about your identity...I thought you were either 99788 Richard Buffington, 1635, Bovingdon Green, Bucks England R-Z49, or
    399543 John David Bendell Unknown Origin R-U152,

    but I now realize you are 380315 John Kinman b. ca. 1737 and d. ca. 1782 Unknown Origin R-Z49.

    So here is the corrected chart. Yes you do have a close match with the Langley men 570 to 660 years ago

    kinmann.png

    I went back and edited my earlier post to correct my error.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-20-2015 at 03:42 AM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
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  2. #22
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    Thanks,
    That's great. 600 years sounds about right for my split with Langley in England. But I suspect that I might be even closer to some matches with the Maynor/Maner family Project at FTDNA, possibly even as recent as 340 years ago in colonial Virginia. But that presently is just an educated guess.
    ---------------Ken

  3. #23
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    I did a quick check in the U152 project and found only one other close match.

    Sainte Marie O'Neill Michel-Etienne is a close match to you and the Langley fellows. In fact he's a closer match to you than the Langleys.
    [email protected] markers = 5, TMRCA=480 years ago

    Attachment 5255
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-20-2015 at 03:51 AM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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     kinman (07-21-2015)

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinman View Post
    Thanks,
    That's great. 600 years sounds about right for my split with Langley in England. But I suspect that I might be even closer to some matches with the Maynor/Maner family Project at FTDNA, possibly even as recent as 340 years ago in colonial Virginia. But that presently is just an educated guess.
    ---------------Ken
    The Maynor/Maner family are indeed close.
    GDs are [email protected] markers, [email protected] markers, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] markers. TMRCA ranges from 360 to 810 years ago.

    Also E5562 Zoror R-Z49, is [email protected] markers and 300 years for TMRCA.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 07-20-2015 at 04:07 AM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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     kinman (07-21-2015)

  7. #25
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    Yes,
    I also have Saint Marie O'Neill Michel-Etienne closer to me than the Langleys. However, I think that some of the Maynor/Maner family might be even closer (especially kit number 30136). But again, this is just an educated guess. I still have so much to learn about the statistical probabilities that I can't be sure.

  8. #26
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    You beat me to it. I think your date of 360 years ago sounds about right (in colonial Virginia). I even have found a record (about 1670) of a Maynor man punished in Virginia for fornication, which presumably produced an illegimate child (since the mother was also punished). If a Kinman family adopted one of Maynor's illegitimate sons, that would solve the mystery of the name change.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinman View Post
    You beat me to it. I think your date of 360 years ago sounds about right (in colonial Virginia). I even have found a record (about 1670) of a Maynor man punished in Virginia for fornication, which presumably produced an illegimate child (since the mother was also punished). If a Kinman family adopted one of Maynor's illegitimate sons, that would solve the mystery of the name change.
    Did you see the comment in post 24 about you close Zoror surname match?
    E5562 Zoror R-Z49, is [email protected] markers and 300 years for TMRCA.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  10. #28
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    Yes, I saw it. But I believe that I am probably closer to Maynor (kit number 30136) because we share DYS570=19 to the exclusion of Zoror. And Zoror also has the less derived value of 406S1=11, while I share with Maynor (and Langley) the very rare DYS406S1=12.

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I did a quick check in the U152 project and found only one other close match.

    Sainte Marie O'Neill Michel-Etienne is a close match to you and the Langley fellows. In fact he's a closer match to you than the Langleys.
    [email protected] markers = 5, TMRCA=480 years ago

    Attachment 5255
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    By the way, Zoror and Sainte Marie O'Neill Michel-Etienne are the same kit (Zoror is the descendant's name and the other is the ancestor's name). The [email protected] markers is indeed 5, so a TMRCA of 480 years ago would be valid. I'm not sure how you then got Zoror (the same kit) with [email protected] of only 3 (and TMRCA 300 years). Perhaps due to a couple of incorrect STR values in one of the FTDNA databases. Anyway, 480 years for Zoror sounds about right, with Langleys further back at about 600 years, and 360 years for my closest match (Maynor), so your TMRCA dates seem to be pretty accurate.

    I believe that closest Maynor match is kit 30136, but I need to recheck on that. My common ancestor with that Maynor is probably John Maynor (Maynard), who was perhaps born about 1650 (365 years ago) and was convicted of fornication in Virginia about 1670. If the resulting child was a son (or he had other illegitimate sons), the son could be grandfather (or great grandfather) of my John Kinman (born ca. 1738 near Philadelphia). And there were Kinmans living in between (in Maryland) about 1710. The timing is perfect.

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  13. #30
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    Quick update,
    John Maynor Sr. (b. ca. 1650) apparently had his first legitimate son (John Maynor Jr.) about 1676. Since his conviction was in 1670, perhaps he sowed his wild oats from about 1667 to 1674, and then got married about 1675 and started producing legitimate descendants (who moved south into North Carolina, while at least one illegitimate son probably ended up going in the opposite direction to Maryland).
    Anyway, now I need to attempt to figure out where in England the Langley to Maynor (Maynard?) name change occurred (either by adoption or illegitimacy). That might have happened about the early part of the 1500s.
    -----------Ken

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