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Thread: North-Norwegians, North-Swedes and Finns

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  1. #1
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    North-Norwegians, North-Swedes and Finns

    I'm a guy of primarily North-Norwegian and Eastern Finnish ancestry living in Southern-Norway, where the majority of ethnic Norwegians have light-brown, blonde and ginger hair, and very little eye brows(some look like cancer patients).
    I have noticed that the further north we get, the higher the amount of brown and even black-looking hair,
    as well as more eyebrow-growth(although also more noticeable due to the dark hair), even among ethnic Norwegians(not sami).

    Some examples.

    Me and my family:



    Tim Sparv:


    Jarmo Mäkinen:


    Andreas af Enehjelm:


    Juju(artist):


    Charlotte Kalla(north swede):


    Steinar Albrigtsen(north norwegian):


    Lars iver strand(north norwegian):


    Some might jump to conclusions that it's all Sami-admixture, but could there also be that the Northern parts of Norway and Sweden, and the Finns, all contain ancient(with more dark features) north-european admixture(not counting the finnish and saami siberian component)?

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  3. #2
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    Some of them have very noticeable epicanthic folds which seems to peak in the Scandinavian countries. Otherwise, those who lack these features, look somewhat British/French. How many of these north Norwegians are actually the original people of the area? Perhaps they are actually immigrants and have origins further south. I've seen a number of P312+ descent people (L21 included) turn up in far NW Norway.

    EDIT: Aren't Saami the ones with the epicanthic folds? When I google images they look much more Russian than the folks you posted here, at least the last couple guys.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 07-20-2015 at 07:32 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Some of them have very noticeable epicanthic folds which seems to peak in the Scandinavian countries. Otherwise, those who lack these features, look somewhat British/French. How many of these north Norwegians are actually the original people of the area? Perhaps they are actually immigrants and have origins further south. I've seen a number of P312+ descent people (L21 included) turn up in far NW Norway.
    Not a single ethnic Norwegian are the pure ancient peoples of that area(The hunter-gatherers). All Norwegians likely have quite an extensive German, French, British and even a little southern-european admixture(which have mutated over the years into somewhat distinct Scandinavian DNA).
    What makes this interesting, is that the areas with the most west-european ancestry(Britain and west-mediterranean/Spanish/French), western and southern Norway, seems to have the highest amount of blonde, ginger and light-brown hair.


    EDIT: Aren't Saami the ones with the epicanthic folds? When I google images they look much more Russian than the folks you posted here, at least the last couple guys.
    Yep, some Finns and Saami got the epicanthic folds.
    Last edited by hintsu; 07-21-2015 at 05:18 PM.

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    This came up in a search, I see it's a pretty old post. But part of my family was north Swede, darker skin, dark brown hair and eyes similar to the Swedish woman you posted. There is newer research on these differences. North Swedes and southern Swedes are different genetically. (I have not seen much for Norway but would assume similar; I am researching Sweden). There can be possibly a little Sami. But more generally the north is less Germanic, possibly less European farmer background and more retained hunter-gatherer because the farmers did not establish well beyond the south, likely due to the difficulty of adapting farming for the north (this is the theory based on the DNA patterns supposedly; there is farmer DNA but at much different proportions).

    It's interesting GedMatch has some references for West Norwegian and East but not North or South. Eurogenes does have South and North Sweden (I match both as my top two populations) and MDLP 23 has a Swede Sami population (which I also match, but after general Swede). I have not seen a North Norwegian reference population. But northern Norway is possibly similar to Northern Sweden in ancient DNA differences to the south of the country.

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    I've pronounced epicanthic folds, predominate on my left side, slightly less on my right. Northern European ancestry, possibly Scandinavia. Very light skin, blue eyes.
    I've wondered about the folds as they've become more obvious as I age.

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    Sami admixture with other ethnicities isn't that common, so it's most likely due to the other reasons posted here.

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    Northern Norwegians are quite different genetically compared to Northern Swedes. Most Northern Swedes have a decent amount of assimilated Finnish/Sami ancestry. I wouldn't even be suprised if Northern Norwegians have less Finnish and Sami input than even the central parts of Sweden(Svealand). Some people from Svealand almost come out 50% Norwegian 50% Southwest Finnish on Gedmatch. I think it's mostly due to the Norwegian North was settled earlier than that of Sweden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I think it's mostly due to the Norwegian North was settled earlier than that of Sweden.
    Yes in my opinion climate is little better (sea climate) on the Norwegian coast than in Norrland (continental). So it could be a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lukaszM View Post
    Yes in my opinion climate is little better (sea climate) on the Norwegian coast than in Norrland (continental). So it could be a reason.
    Exactly the way I see it. More hospitable climate, and more food to eat.
    Scandinavian-love structure

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    recent East/North German
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    medieval Norwegian and Danish via Ireland (possibly surviving structure)
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    closest modern Sweden2
    closest ancient Sigtuna vik84001

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    Can somebody post North Norwegian gedmatch or other autosomal results?
    Hidden Content

    Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    1. 63.1% Swedish + 36.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.93

    Dodecad K12b
    1. 87,89% Szolad3 + 12,11% CHV001_Chalmny_Varre_18th-19th @ 1,131
    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24


     

    Target: Nino
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