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Thread: The origin of the Slavs

  1. #1691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    @ph2ter

    I guess much of I-Y3120 DYS448=20 in the West Balkans is actually S17855+ ?
    Since both Z17855 and Y4460 were quite low in that statistics I posted from Vayda's blog.
    DYS448=20 (Din-N) in Bulgaria is predominantly Z17855. In Serbia there is Z17855, but also some Y4882.
    But Y4460 is also present in south and east Balkans (and Y18331 in Greece and Macedonia)
     
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  2. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    I assume this is prediction based on STR values? How reliably can we distiguish PH908 from the rest of S17250 subclades?

    Surprisingly, out of 20 Romanians which are I-Y3120 on the FTDNA tree, not one is in PH908 branch.
    I am PH908 and DYS561=15.
    Most PH908 folk fall under DYS561=16. That's the typical Balkan clade.

    http://i2aproject.blogspot.com/2021/...5-cluster.html

    Most people in Romania and Moldova test overwhelmingly only autosomally, and even in that case it's mostly done through MyHeritage, which doesn't test for yDNA and mtDNA. Therefore, both countries are misrepresented on FTDNA's tree and YFull when it comes to deep testing. Even I who tested deep for everything that's currently available under PH908 and turned out negative, so PH908*, did not choose to upload there, because they don't accept YSEQ data.
    Last edited by Dorkymon; 11-24-2021 at 10:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    DYS448=20 (Din-N) in Bulgaria is predominantly Z17855. In Serbia there is Z17855, but also some Y4882.
    But Y4460 is also present in south and east Balkans (and Y18331 in Greece and Macedonia)
    And Vajda blog statistics I suppose is not based on scientific papers.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post


    Surprisingly, out of 20 Romanians which are I-Y3120 on the FTDNA tree, not one is in PH908 branch.
    The majority of people in the group Romania are not ethnic Romanians. Just look at the surnames: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ame=ycolorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    DYS448=20 (Din-N) in Bulgaria is predominantly Z17855. In Serbia there is Z17855, but also some Y4882.
    But Y4460 is also present in south and east Balkans (and Y18331 in Greece and Macedonia)
    Yes but not all DYS448=20 is Z17855 , Y4460 or Y18331.
    Some PH908- S17855+ clades also exsibit DYS448=20.
    That's why I asked in first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    8,1 %, that's really high. I-FGC22045 being a more recent founder effect, but how much of Serbo-Croatian I1 being really under this subclade?
    57.5% of all I1 among Serbs (not only in Serbia) is FGC22045+. It is mostly associated with this tribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drobnjaci
    I think this subclade should not be so common among Croats (except maybe in Southern Croatia).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    57.5% of all I1 among Serbs (not only in Serbia) is FGC22045+. It is mostly associated with this tribe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drobnjaci
    I think this subclade should not be so common among Croats (except maybe in Southern Croatia).
    Thank you!

    That's the statistic from FTDNA, Croatia comes first there:
    Croatia 1 4 4 25.00%
    Bosnia and Herzegovina 0 4 4 25.00%
    Serbia 0 3 3 18.75%
    Montenegro 0 3 3 18.75%
    Macedonia 1 1 1 6.25%
    Romania 0 1 1 6.25%
    Unknown Origin 1 4 4 *
    Small sample of course and I don't know whether they are Croatian/Krajina Serbs.

    In any case not all Croatian carriers seem to be the result of modern ethnic Serbs:
    https://yfull.com/tree/I-FGC22045/

    Very interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drobnjaci
    Seems like a Germanic turned Roman, turned Vlach, turned Serbian and Croatian...
    Last edited by Riverman; 11-24-2021 at 03:12 PM.

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  12. #1698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    That's the statistic from FTDNA, Croatia comes first there:
    Small sample of course and I don't know whether they are Croatian/Krajina Serbs.
    Sample base for the percentage I gave was 334 I1 records.

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  14. #1699
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    In other words, the migrations of Serbs and Croats happened exactly as in the book of Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus.
    Just want to write that after this recent discussion I'm not as much opposed to this view, as I was before. I see reasons why you may be right.

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    Here is I-M423 UMAP plot made from Y-DNA STR 37 values of FTDNA users.

    I think it fairly good shows the genetic distance and kinship between various M423 clades:

     
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