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Thread: V20 SNP defines new subhaplogroup of C

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaudrakon View Post
    Hello All! I am new here, so greetings from the sunny Med. Also, I am really quite DNA illiterate still, so I will appreciate your patience.

    Igmayka, I wonder if you can tell me how I can participate more actively in this C haplogroup enquiry. FTDNA has me down as C-V222, and as I have a Greek background on my father's side the prediction you mentioned about C-V20 appearing in Greece is confirmed I am naturally intrigued by this, not least of all by it's rarity. Would I be right in saying this looks to be something like the DNA of Europe's 'aborigines'?
    Very interesting, considering C is very rare in Europe. I'm going to follow this thread with a little more interest. I'm not sure about C being the European Aborigines since Wikipedia has this about the subject and it's also found on Dienekes site.

    C-V20 Found with low frequency in Europeans[25] A 7000-year old hunter-gatherer from Spain carried it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diverclic View Post
    I noticed this update on ISOGG but it seems surprising as I heard that CTS11043 is known to produce false positives and the testing in public database was limited by the number of cases available.
    Take a look at YFull's haplotree for C1a. The C1a level is defined by

    CTS11268 CTS8809 Z3865 Z4056 CTS9166 CTS8718 CTS11043 Y2800

    The tree lists 4 public examples of the Japanese subclade (C1a1 or C-M8), but no public examples of the European C-V20. At least one member of C-V20 ordered the Big Y test in the current discount sale.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaudrakon View Post
    lgmayka, I wonder if you can tell me how I can participate more actively in this C haplogroup enquiry.
    I sent you an email. (You are an exact 12-marker match with kit 171250 in my project.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaudrakon View Post
    FTDNA has me down as C-V222, and as I have a Greek background on my father's side the prediction you mentioned about C-V20 appearing in Greece is confirmed I am naturally intrigued by this, not least of all by it's rarity. Would I be right in saying this looks to be something like the DNA of Europe's 'aborigines'?
    Very possibly, from perhaps 40,000 years ago. I have not seen any other reasonable explanation for why this 40,000-year-old split between Japanese and Europeans have not yet been found anywhere else on earth, and is rare even in those two places.

    The estimated age of the split comes from the number of reliable SNPs listed by YFull for the Japanese C-M8 level: 277, if I count correctly.

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    I understand that we have now few ancient C's .The La Brana ,Hungarian one and now Kostenki .Does these samples belong to V20 clade ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    Does these samples belong to V20 clade ?
    According to Table S6 in the the supplemental materials for the Kostenki paper, the Kostenki sample is F3393+ . C-F3393 is an early clade that eventually leads to C-V20 (European), C-P122 (Japanese), and C-M356 (South Asian).

    As Dienekes says, the others you mention were C-V20 (formerly called C6).
    Last edited by lgmayka; 11-16-2014 at 12:01 PM.

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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    I understand that we have now few ancient C's .The La Brana ,Hungarian one and now Kostenki .Does these samples belong to V20 clade ?
    lgmayka has given you the answer, but I'll just mention that you can find ancient DNA results from Western Eurasia in my tables. http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnaintro.shtml

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  10. #17
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    One member of C-V20 (kit 218881 of Poland) has now been placed as "new" on the YFull haplotree. Analysis of his BAM file is nowhere near complete, but these preliminary statistics have been released:

    Private SNPs (all): 358
    Best qual: 330 (92.18%) [282 (78.77%) - best; 48 (13.41%) - acceptable]
    INDELs: 1 (0.28%)
    Ambiguous qual: 21 (5.87%)
    One read!: 0
    Low qual: 6 (1.68%)

    330 reliable (best- and acceptable-quality) SNPs, with each such SNP representing 140-150 years of patrilineage, equates to a TMRCA of 46-49 thousand years with the Japanese C1a1 (C-M8) clade.

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  12. #18
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    Of the aDNA retrieved from South Siberian Kurgans (Keyser et al. 2009), all but one of them belonged to Y-DNA R1a1a.

    The other (S07) belonged to a "C(xC3)". The STRs are below. It would be quite something if it matches the confirmed +V20.

    Code:
    Specimen DYS19 DYS385 DYS389I DYS389II DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS437 DYS438 DYS439 DYS448 DYS456 DYS458 DYS635 YGATA Haplogroup
    S07 15 12/13 14 30 22 9 12 14 14 10 11 19 15 16 22 11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    The other (S07) belonged to a "C(xC3)". The STRs are below. It would be quite something if it matches the confirmed +V20.

    Code:
    Specimen DYS19 DYS385 DYS389I DYS389II DYS390 DYS391 DYS392 DYS393 DYS437 DYS438 DYS439 DYS448 DYS456 DYS458 DYS635 YGATA Haplogroup
    S07 15 12/13 14 30 22 9 12 14 14 10 11 19 15 16 22 11
    In FTDNA order:
    Code:
    14 22 15 9 12-13 x x 11 14 12 30    16 x x x x x 14 19 x x-x-x-x    x 10 x-x 15 x x x x-x x 10
    Frankly, I see no close matches in the yDNA C Project.

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  16. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    One member of C-V20 (kit 218881 of Poland) has now been placed as "new" on the YFull haplotree. Analysis of his BAM file is nowhere near complete
    Analysis of his BAM file is now complete. A couple dozen SNPs have been discarded, but the remaining number is still quite impressive:
    Private SNPs (all): 331
    Best qual: 312 (94.26%) [273 (82.48%) - best; 39 (11.78%) - acceptable]
    INDELs: 0
    Ambiguous qual: 18 (5.44%)
    One read!: 0
    Low qual: 1 (0.30%)

    312 reliable private SNPs, at 140-150 years per SNP, equates to 44-47 thousand years since divergence from the Japanese C1a1.

    A second C-V20 has just been submitted to YFull, and a third is waiting for his BAM file.

    I have learned that three additional C-V20 men, with Western European surnames (Elliott, Coote, and Kisch), have Big Y results. I have sent them email suggesting that they submit their data to YFull, but I don't know whether any of them will do so.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 01-06-2015 at 02:10 AM.

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