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Thread: 23andme results of North-African Jews

  1. #1
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    23andme results of North-African Jews

    results

    Moroccan Jew:

    paternal haplogroup



    maternal haplogroup



    ancestry composition



    Top 5 countries of ancestry

    Tunisian Jew:

    paternal haplogroup



    maternal haplogroup



    ancestry composition
    Last edited by nicolie; 07-31-2015 at 12:20 AM.

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  3. #2
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    23andMe Ancestry Composition is utterly unreliable in my case. Even FTDNA MyOrigins is much better than it, again there are very many free tools at Gedmatch and there are a few members here, who are always testing and improving such tools.

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    Im guessing the high european scores are from jews who were exiled from spain

  5. #4
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    It's very common for Sephardim to get some "broadly Southern European" (that's what my Sephardi inheritance is painted as too) because Sephardim were mainly in Southern Europe -- from Portugal and Spain through France and Italy east to the Balkans and Turkey -- and, because unlike Ashkenazi, Sephardi is not recognized as a separate category.

    Whether these genes are more typical of Europe or of the Near East is also not immediately obvious, because 23andme is taking it for granted that samples are typical of their most recent point of origin, which is not always (in fact rarely) true of a diaspora.

    Take for example Tatar, Armenian, and Romani diasporas, which could potentially all appear as "East European." Specific diaspora samples would really help people sort out whether a local component was in fact generic. So I'd have hoped they would by now have added more diaspora populations, including Sephardim but also many others like Parsis, Acadians, etc.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJL View Post
    It's very common for Sephardim to get some "broadly Southern European" (that's what my Sephardi inheritance is painted as too) because Sephardim were mainly in Southern Europe -- from Portugal and Spain through France and Italy east to the Balkans and Turkey -- and, because unlike Ashkenazi, Sephardi is not recognized as a separate category.

    Whether these genes are more typical of Europe or of the Near East is also not immediately obvious, because 23andme is taking it for granted that samples are typical of their most recent point of origin, which is not always (in fact rarely) true of a diaspora.


    Take for example Tatar, Armenian, and Romani diasporas, which could potentially all appear as "East European." Specific diaspora samples would really help people sort out whether a local component was in fact generic. So I'd have hoped they would by now have added more diaspora populations, including Sephardim but also many others like Parsis, Acadians, etc.
    Quite so, ironically-enough these results are probably very similar to what your average Ashkenazi Jew would get if the "Ashkenazi" category didn't exist.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  9. #6
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    Why do they seem to be getting "Italian" instead of "Iberian", with Iberian being very low? Even normal North Africans, not moriscos or anything, get a great majority Iberian for their European section, whereas these supposedly Sephardic(Spanish) Jews get close to no Iberian.
    And they seem to have a high "North African". I think they might be local Jews, not Sephardic Jews.
    Last edited by Juba; 07-31-2015 at 08:02 AM.

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    These two profiles have a high "North African" component because they are very likely local North African Jews (even if most of North African Jews often identify as Sephardim). Sephardim (Descendants of Jews from Spain, Portugal) do not get such a high value for "North African" at 23andme.
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 07-31-2015 at 07:55 AM.

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  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rz1706 View Post
    These two profiles have a high "North African" component because they are very likely local North African Jews (even if most of North African Jews often identify as Sephardim). Sephardim (Descendants of Jews from Spain, Portugal) do not get such a high value for "North African" at 23andme.
    This. I really doubt they're Sephardim.
    More likely they're native Jews mixed in with Mizrahim(real Jews) and maybe some Sephardi.

    Sephardim pretty much all went to big cities in North Africa after the inquisition, but there were still plenty of Jews on the countryside that live there since time immemorial. They even had their own mixed language of mainly Berber plus Hebrew in many places, like Ladino and Yiddish.

    For example, Riffian Jews worked many jobs that other Riffians looked down upon and weren't interested in, like blacksmith or cobbler. They also weren't physically differentiable from other Riffians, unlike the Jews in big cities which most could easily segregate from the rest just from their appearance.

  14. #9
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    We don't know if they are Toshavim or Megorachim because in both countries you have different types of Jew. In any case, they wouldn't be very different from Sefardic (and even Ashkenazi) Jews apart from higher North African admix.

    I personally highly doubt there was a pred-North African Jewish group left in the 20th century with the colonial system and the segregation. If there ever was a pred-berber group in the recent past, it would have quickly mixed with the rest of the Jewish population.

    We need dna samples from Berber-speaking Jews (in Israel) and from a couple of Jews originally from berber-speaking places (Tafilalt, Aflalo etc..) to get at least a hint.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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  16. #10
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    Lybian and Tunisian Jews derive most of their ancestry from the "toshavim", which is why they have the highest amounts of North African admixture and clearly cline towards North Africa. They're still very similar to other Western Jewish populations (Sephardic, Ashkenazi) as a whole, which is quite a feat considering the fact that their ancestors arrived in North Africa with the first Phoenicians settlers. Algerian and Moroccan Jews mostly descend from the "megorashim", even though they also have non-negligible amounts of North African admixture. I'd like to know more about their paternal lineages though, I know Moroccan and Tunisian Jewish Kohanim carry the same J1 subclade as other Kohanim (Z18271), that's not very surprising, I do think the high G and J2b frequencies (in Moroccan and Libyan Jews respectively) deserve more attention.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 07-31-2015 at 12:59 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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