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Thread: Schoolgirl breaks Prof.'s no anti Irish Myths

  1. #1
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    Schoolgirl breaks Prof.'s no anti Irish Myths

    I remember reading this Jenson guys stuff and knew it was at least partially wrong right away...I had seen reprints of early anti Irish or 'NINA' (help wanted-No Irish Need Apply) ads in american newspapers and was well aware of the negative stereotypes often bandied about in stories and literature

    So its fun to see this blow hard taken down by an kid who just started off with a quick internet search...she did alot more work as time went by, but to see him have to crawl back from 'never', to 'a few' to 'ok, some' is brilliant

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...or-s-myth.html

    here btw are a few I found a few years ago...for those who are used to the more modern idea of Irish being a pretty cool or even privilaged thing, check out the movie 'Gangs of New York'...it did a pretty good job of depicting the anti Immigrant (nothing new there) and thus anti Irish (due to the huge exodus of Irish from the potato famines and general poverty) in the mid 1800's

    no irish Monkeyirishman.jpg

    no-irish-need-apply-daily-republican-il-7-may-1873.jpg

    no-irish-newspaper-ad.jpg

    and just for fun
    irish steriotypes.jpg

    Mike

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  3. #2
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    Well done Rebecca Fried! I felt like saying this a dozen times as I read the article.

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    Awh revisionism, of course thankfully that's ship has sailed somewhat, though even in Ireland you find strains of it in general public. For example people claiming that the Irish language (which is what at least 2,500 years in evolution) is tainted due to it's use by Irish republican's (easier to say that than to admit to been bigoted against a minority speech community). Of course there's still a good whiff of "Colonial mentality" going on in Official Ireland. A good example is following from Minster of Defense after the naming of new naval vessel (on order) after WB Yeats (tradition before hand were always irish language female names linked to mythology):

    Minister Coveney said that the naming of the ship after William Butler Yeats, a world renowned Irish poet, literary figure and Nobel Laureate,” will continue to facilitate greater recognition of our Naval Service ships when visiting foreign ports and set a tone domestically reflecting a more modern Ireland and Irish Naval Service”.
    Bolded added for emphasis of course the inferiority complex going on is obvious not too surprising coming from a Blueshirt like Coveney though. Heaven forbid foreigners would have to put up with irish ships named after (often powerful) women from mythology!

    Alot of the scholarship around Revisionism was based on using just Tudor/Stuart state documents to basically claim that Tudor conquest was really all about "modernisation" and that it wasn't their fault it descended into violence, and that there was no systematic pattern when it came to use of violence. A good recent counter to this that I've read (well mostly ) is:

    Age of atrocity
    Violence and political conflict in early modern Ireland

    http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/books/...e-of-atrocity/
    Last edited by Dubhthach; 08-03-2015 at 01:47 PM.
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    Reminder to keep the thread civil, please.

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    [MOD] Hello members,

    1) The topic is specifically on attempts to promote historical anti Irish sentiments as myth. Let's remain as close to this topic as possible to avoid tangents which might serve as lightning rods for off-topic (e.g. political correctness in academia)

    2) Personalizing discussion is strictly impermissible here.

    We'll be deleting some posts shortly to re align discussion on topic. Any more comments breaking away from the two points above will result in infractions.

    Thanks for understanding.
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    Sometimes it is hard to know what the limits of these discussions are or should be. Wondering about Jensen's motivation for downplaying the suffering of the Irish seemed natural to me. Naturally, the question why? would come up.

    But okay; I don't care that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Sometimes it is hard to know what the limits of these discussions are or should be. Wondering about Jensen's motivation for downplaying the suffering of the Irish seemed natural to me. Naturally, the question why? would come up.

    But okay; I don't care that much.
    Well if you an Anglophile during 80's-90's than obviously you might view Ireland through the situation of Northern Troubles. One thing I found disturbing in article was when Miller contacted Jensen his argument was to dismiss his opinion because "you're an Irish-American and a Catholic". That's a rather troubling sign of bias if you ask me. I also found bit about when Miller was in New Zealand about the response when Miller's wife was "outed" as been of Irish background:

    “They said, ‘That’s gotta be it!’ That’s why I’m sympathetic to these Irish rebel terrorist scum!”
    The emphasis on rebel and terrorist, if you ask me plays into British imperial rhetoric around Fenianism (and of recent Northern Troubles). Something that is inherited in places such as Australia to this day.

    For example here in Ireland we just had commemoration of 100 anniversary of burial of O'Donovan Rossa, one of major Fenian's of 19th century (who died in America -- he was proponent of "dynamtism" ), in modern British political discourse the term "Fenian" is a negative. So much so that the word is used as a slur in the North and in Scotland. Of course it's ironic in sense because if you were an Irish nationalist/republican been lumped in with the Fenians of 19th century would if anything be a badge of honour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    Well if you an Anglophile during 80's-90's than obviously you might view Ireland through the situation of Northern Troubles. One thing I found disturbing in article was when Miller contacted Jensen his argument was to dismiss his opinion because "you're an Irish-American and a Catholic". That's a rather troubling sign of bias if you ask me. I also found bit about when Miller was in New Zealand about the response when Miller's wife was "outed" as been of Irish background:



    The emphasis on rebel and terrorist, if you ask me plays into British imperial rhetoric around Fenianism (and of recent Northern Troubles). Something that is inherited in places such as Australia to this day.

    For example here in Ireland we just had commemoration of 100 anniversary of burial of O'Donovan Rossa, one of major Fenian's of 19th century (who died in America -- he was proponent of "dynamtism" ), in modern British political discourse the term "Fenian" is a negative. So much so that the word is used as a slur in the North and in Scotland. Of course it's ironic in sense because if you were an Irish nationalist/republican been lumped in with the Fenians of 19th century would if anything be a badge of honour.
    Of course, as you know, I have Irish Catholic ancestry. I come from one of those curious American families that, while religiously Christian, was pretty easy going about it. My dad's grandmother was Irish and Catholic, as was her daughter, my dad's mother, who faithfully attended Mass at St. Rose of Lima Catholic Church in New Orleans, along with my dad's sisters. My dad's father's family was Protestant, however, but they didn't get riled up about grandma going to Mass and saying the Rosary.

    And I am Eastern Orthodox. When my dad's sister found out I had become Orthodox, she told my dad, "He's more Catholic than the Pope!"

    Of course, I wasn't trying to downplay the sufferings of the Irish; I was just wondering why Jensen did. I doubt it has anything to do with his love of the British Empire.

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    Rich,

    My post was about Jensen and not about you
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