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Thread: H6a1b2 - What's the Skinny?

  1. #1
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    H6a1b2 - What's the Skinny?

    Hello all...

    I am hoping someone on this great forum can help out a poor DNA dilettante and perhaps fill in a gap or two.

    For decades, I have been trying to solve a family mystery. My great-great-great grandfather came to Oregon on the Oregon Trail in 1843 and settled 8 miles east of Oregon City. I've been out there and it is some beautiful country...lush woods, flowing streams, fertile soil...all overlooked by majestic Mt. Hood.

    Life was quite hard for those early settlers. My poor ggg-Granddad lost his first wife when he was all of 25 and had three children to raise. In November 1852, he remarried. His new wife was named Malinda Hilburn and she was all of 14 years old.

    She is a huge mystery. Most of the early pioneer families of Oregon are well documented. Hers is not...in fact there are not even any Hilburns around that I have been able to find. She first appears in their marriage record in 1852, then gives my ggg-grandfather three more children. She appears on the 1860 Census as having been born in 1838 in Indiana and then dies before reaching her 30th birthday. We don't even know when she died or where she is buried. GGG-Granddad remarried another woman and she raised his children by his first two wives.

    One night, it occurred to me that an eighty-year-old cousin in Idaho carried Malinda Hilburn's mitochondrial DNA. My cousin, being the great lady that she is, was intrigued by my request to test her DNA and readily agreed.

    I had speculated that perhaps poor Malinda was a Calapooya Indian or a half-blood girl since there seems to be no record of anyone of her name living in the general vicinity. But this was not the case. After I tested my cousin with 23andMe, her mitochondrial DNA turned out to be an H6a1b2. My questions to the knowledgeable and sagacious members of this forum are these...

    1. What is this haplogroup presently now called since all of the ISOGG updates?
    2. What is the origin of this haplogroup and what makes it distinctive?
    3. What part of the world is it most frequently found today?
    3. Is it generally very common?

    Thanks for any light you might shed my mysterious ancestress.
    Last edited by Grossvater; 08-28-2015 at 05:44 PM.

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  3. #2
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    This has been up for 24 hours and I'm a bit surprised nobody knows anything about this haplogroup. I guess it shows that there's still lots of work to do regarding the origins of my family's mitochondrial DNA haplogroups.

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    I don't think ISOGG maintains an mtDNA haplotree. The http://phylotree.org/ haplotree is usually regarded as the best/most complete mtDNA haplotree and it is updated periodically. I'm not sure what build of the mtDNA tree 23andMe uses but it is likely not the latest one, however there might not have necessarily been any changes relevant to your branch. I don't know anything about H6a1b2 in particular, there are so many subclades haplogroup H that I don't really keep track of any that aren't in my family.

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    Behar's age estimate for H6a1b2 is about 4800 years and it has 4 named subclades. Ian Logan lists the GenBank samples.

    You can try uploading 23andMe results to mthap see if it provides a more specific results, or take advantage of the FMS sale at FTDNA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GailT View Post
    Behar's age estimate for H6a1b2 is about 4800 years and it has 4 named subclades. Ian Logan lists the GenBank samples.

    You can try uploading 23andMe results to mthap see if it provides a more specific results, or take advantage of the FMS sale at FTDNA.
    These are both excellent recommendations.
    Ian Logan's data have been very helpful to me.
    Please remember that many of his data are from academic studies and while citizen individuals are encouraged to submit their FMS data, many have not yet done so. (Me included, but at least it's on my to-do list.) But their data are at FTDNA.
    I can therefore also recommend doing the FMS through FTDNA and joining the relevant mtDNA Haplogroup project groups. (You have to join the gateway/portal H&HV group before being allowed into the H6 group.)

    There is also a good tree at http://www.mtdnacommunity.org/human-...phylogeny.aspx

    And as you seem to be asking if H6a1b2 is pre-Columbian Native American, then no it is not.
    It is European. And you don't need any more testing to tell you that.
    There were very occasionally Europeans who became adopted by Native Americans, and later married European settlers.
    See Roberta Estes blog at http://dna-explained.com/ and look for postings on the subject Native American DNA (subjects down the right hand side).

    Dates from the Behar paper come from the relevant supplement, not the article itself.
    I also have some dates from an article by Mielnick-Sikorska 2013, but I can't find the details just now.
    There is also a useful article from Brotherton, Haak, Templeton et al. 2013 in Nature Communications on "Neolithic mitochondrial haplogroup H genomes and the genetic origins of Europeans".

    Saetro, H6a1b4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post



    And as you seem to be asking if H6a1b2 is pre-Columbian Native American, then no it is not.
    It is European. And you don't need any more testing to tell you that.
    There were very occasionally Europeans who became adopted by Native Americans, and later married European settlers.
    No, no...I may be a DNA dilettante but I know that Malinda's mtdna is not Native American. What tiny bit of documentation that we have on Malinda indicates she was European. It was a long shot guess that she might be Native American, since there doesn't seem to be any record of her family's migration. This was one of the reasons I had my cousin to test. Malinda must have traveled west as an orphan perhaps, with a family with a different surname or came into the Oregon Territory by sea. I'm still wracking my brain trying to think of records to access that might reveal her arrival to the Oregon Country before November of 1852 when she married my ggg-grandfather.

    Thanks, Saetro, for responding and for all your good suggestions.

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    this is my mDNA .. my maternal line is from Northern England ...possibly from Viking ancestors ?

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    I have to say I don't know much about this subclade either. My grandfather was H6a1a3 and has hundreds of near-matches from all over Europe, so my guess is all the H6a1's expanded very quickly across Europe perhaps with the spread of Near Eastern/West Asian farmers (i.e. it's tied heavily to the spread of R1b and R1a, or E-V13).
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    Grossvater,

    My mother has, I think, four H6a1b2's from her 'one-to-many' lists whom she has X-DNA connections to. That triangulates them to a common male ancestor in 18th Century North Carolina who was involved with mating with slaves. In this case the enslaved woman likely came from the Barbary Pirates and her female offspring were sold as brides when they were old enough. I would bet that this is where Melinda's maternal line traces through. Did you have an autosomal test done besides the mtDNA?

    Jack
    Last edited by C J Wyatt III; 09-29-2016 at 09:51 PM. Reason: typo with haplogroup

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    I'm just plain jane H6a1, and even more of a DNA dilettante, so much so, that I'm now going to look up the definition of dilettante. Really.

    23andme reports H6a1.

    mtMAP reports either

    1) H6a1a8

    Defining Markers for haplogroup H6a1a8:
    HVR2: 239C 263G
    CR: 750G 1438G 3915A 4727G 4769G 8860G 9380A 11253C 15326G
    HVR1: 16298C 16362C (16482G)

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H6a1a8:
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 239C 16362C (16482G) ⇨ H6 ⇨ 3915A 9380A ⇨ H6a ⇨ 4727G ⇨ H6a1 ⇨ 11253C ⇨ H6a1a ⇨ 16298C ⇨ H6a1a8

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(10): 263G 750G 1438G 3915A 4727G 4769G 8860G 9380A 16298C (16482G)
    Flips(1): 16362G
    Untested(3): 239 11253 15326

    or:

    2) H6a1

    Defining Markers for haplogroup H6a1:
    HVR2: 239C 263G
    CR: 750G 1438G 3915A 4727G 4769G 8860G 9380A 15326G
    HVR1: 16362C (16482G)

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup H6a1 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 239C 16362C (16482G) ⇨ H6 ⇨ 3915A 9380A ⇨ H6a ⇨ 4727G ⇨ H6a1 ⇨ 16298C

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(9): 263G 750G 1438G 3915A 4727G 4769G 8860G 9380A (16482G)
    Flips(1): 16362G
    Extras(1): 16298C
    Untested(2): 239 15326

    I am Norfolk English. I haven't traced far back on my maternal mt line. I've traced back to a Mary Quantrill (nee Page) born circa 1802 here in Norfolk.

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