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Thread: Geno 2.0 and R-L23 and R-L51

  1. #1

    Geno 2.0 and R-L23 and R-L51

    CTS1078 Z2103
    PF7575 Z2104
    CTS7340 Z2107
    CTS1843 Z2109
    CTS7822 Z2110
    CTS5981 Z2115
    CTS10379 Z2116
    PF7589 Z2118
    CTS7153 Z2119



    Thanks to daverís compendium, has anyone results about these SNPs?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    CTS1078 Z2103
    PF7575 Z2104
    CTS7340 Z2107
    CTS1843 Z2109
    CTS7822 Z2110
    CTS5981 Z2115
    CTS10379 Z2116
    PF7589 Z2118
    CTS7153 Z2119
    Thanks to daver’s compendium, has anyone results about these SNPs?
    Rathna,
    We have had some luck finding CTS7822/Z2110. In another thread you wrote of Z2106-Z2110 for testing.
    Can you give us some more information about the above list of snps. Perhaps that will help in finding more.
    Thanks, Joe

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Rathna,
    We have had some luck finding CTS7822/Z2110. In another thread you wrote of Z2106-Z2110 for testing.
    Can you give us some more information about the above list of snps. Perhaps that will help in finding more.
    Thanks, Joe
    Joe B, I posted this on December 2012. I found these SNPs in what I called the “daver’s compendium”. “daver” is David Reynolds, one of the citizen scientists of the 1 Thousand Genome Project with Richard Rocca and others.
    Perhaps you should ask Richard Rocca, who, from what answered me in another thread and for some postings about a new work on 1KGP which are in many forums, probably knows more than me about this stuff. From what he wrote about this Chinese R-L23/Z2103/Z2105+ but Z2106 to Z2110- he would be the more ancient of this haplogroup found so far, then ancestral to all these Z2110+ who are springing up from these Geno 2.0.
    But, as I have said in another thread, also this Chinese is a subclade of a subclade of a subclade as to that R-L23* from which was born R-L51.

  4. #4
    Z2103 CTS1078 Z2103 7246135 7186135
    Z2104 PF7575 Z2104 12677962 14167962
    Z2105 14256826 15747432
    Z2106 12723646 14213646
    Z2107 CTS7340 Z2107 15938378 17428984
    Z2108 12176901 13716901
    Z2109 CTS1843 Z2109 12601439 14091439
    Z2110 CTS7822 Z2110 16194093 17684699

    Z2111 3323086 3263086
    Z2112 4652104 4592104
    Z2113 6028320 5968320
    Z2114 13757450 15248056
    Z2115 CTS5981 Z2115 15101312 16591918
    Z2116 CTS10379 Z2116 17936652 19427258
    Z2117 7544708 7484708
    Z2118 PF7589 Z2118 8127783 8067783
    Z2119 CTS7153 Z2119 15833558 17324164
    Z2120 12332081 13822081

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Z2103 CTS1078 Z2103 7246135 7186135
    Z2104 PF7575 Z2104 12677962 14167962
    Z2105 14256826 15747432
    Z2106 12723646 14213646
    Z2107 CTS7340 Z2107 15938378 17428984
    Z2108 12176901 13716901
    Z2109 CTS1843 Z2109 12601439 14091439
    Z2110 CTS7822 Z2110 16194093 17684699

    Z2111 3323086 3263086
    Z2112 4652104 4592104
    Z2113 6028320 5968320
    Z2114 13757450 15248056
    Z2115 CTS5981 Z2115 15101312 16591918
    Z2116 CTS10379 Z2116 17936652 19427258
    Z2117 7544708 7484708
    Z2118 PF7589 Z2118 8127783 8067783
    Z2119 CTS7153 Z2119 15833558 17324164
    Z2120 12332081 13822081
    From the above Z-snps, five got something going on with FTDNA, ISOGG or Geno 2.0. I'm sure there could be more so please add to the list.

    Approx hg; R-L150
    Z2103/CTS1078 - FTDNA ISOGG
    Z2105 - FTDNA ISOGG
    Z2110/CTS7822 - GENO 2.0

    Approx hg; R-L51
    Z2113 - FTDNA (advanced order snp)
    Z2118/PF7589 - GENO 2.0

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    Do you see anything wrong with the below or anything missing? as far as what's right downstream of L23 and Z2103? These are the the rules I'm using in my spreadsheet. This is important for picking up new R1b Z2130 or L51xL11 people. I can quickly copy and paste FTDNA Y SNP report screens into my spreadsheets. Once there, if the formulas are right, it'll sort out what SNPs are relevant out of those long strings. No eye test or phylogenetic memory gymnastics are required. The spreadsheet will flag haplogroups. I've found a few people in the ht35 project that are really DF27+ this way (I need to let the admins know.) I'm also finding people in the R1b and R1ba1a2 projects that belong in the ht35 project or DF27/P312 projects this way. (It's problematic that Geno 2 doesn't test for P312 and DF27.)

    L23+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23; * = L51- ** = Z2103-, Equivalents: S141,L49.1 R1b1a2a (R1b1a2a1 for L150 aggregated here)
    L51+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51; * = L11- ** = Z2115-, Equivalents: /M412/PF6536/S167 R1b1a2a1a

    Z2115+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>Z2115+; Terminal

    Z2103+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103; * = L277- L584- ** = L150.2-, Equivalents: /CTS1078,Z2105
    L277+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L277.1+; Terminal
    L584+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L584+; Terminal R1b1a2a1b
    L150.2+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>Z2103>L150.2+; Terminal R1b1a2a1b

    PF7558+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    PF7562+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    PF7563+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    L405+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2104+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Z2106+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Z2107+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Z2108+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Z2109+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269

    L943+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
    L944+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
    L945+ >>> Unpositioned under L584
    L946+ >>> Unpositioned under L584

    Z2110+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2111+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2112+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2113+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2116+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2117+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2118+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2119+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    Z2120+ >>> Unpositioned under L23

    PF6534+ >>> equivalent to L23
    L49+ >>> equivalent to L23
    Z2105+ >>> equivalent to Z2103
    CTS1078+ >>> equivalent to Z2103

    PF7575+ >>> equivalent to Z2104
    CTS7340+ >>> equivalent to Z2107
    CTS1843+ >>> equivalent to Z2109
    CTS7822+ >>> equivalent to Z2110
    CTS5981+ >>> equivalent to Z2115
    CTS10379+ >>> equivalent to Z2116
    PF7589+ >>> equivalent to Z2118
    CTS7153+ >>> equivalent to Z2119

    PF6536+ >>> equivalent to L51
    Last edited by TigerMW; 10-28-2013 at 02:59 AM.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     Joe B (10-28-2013),  Silesian (10-28-2013)

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Do you see anything wrong with the below or anything missing? as far as what's right downstream of L23 and Z2103? These are the the rules I'm using in my spreadsheet. This is important for picking up new R1b Z2130 or L51xL11 people. I can quickly copy and paste FTDNA Y SNP report screens into my spreadsheets. Once there, if the formulas are right, it'll sort out what SNPs are relevant out of those long strings. No eye test or phylogenetic memory gymnastics are required. The spreadsheet will flag haplogroups. I've found a few people in the ht35 project that are really DF27+ this way (I need to let the admins know.) I'm also finding people in the R1b and R1ba1a2 projects that belong in the ht35 project or DF27/P312 projects this way. (It's problematic that Geno 2 doesn't test for P312 and DF27.)
    CTS1083 is a mistake that won't go away. CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Alice Fairhurst fixed the R y-tree last July removing CTS1083. I don't see CTS1083 on the snp index either.
    Thanks. I fixed the R tree. --Alice July 15 email
    Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca From R-L150 to R-CTS7822 #16
    CTS1083 is not equivalent to Z2103 or Z2105 and it is found in haplogroup C. Are you sure you typed it correctly?
    CTS7822/Z2110+ Should they test for L277 and/or L584?
    As one who lacks the aptitude for the mental gymnastics this requires, thanks.
    Last edited by Joe B; 10-28-2013 at 06:44 PM.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Joe B For This Useful Post:

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    CTS1083 is a mistake that won't go away. CTS1083+ >>> Unpositioned under M269
    Alice Fairhurst fixed the R y-tree last July removing CTS1083. I don't see CTS1083 on the snp index either.
    I saw CTS1083 on an old blog and I saw it in David Reynold's compendium, but it may have been an old version. I'll remove. Not sure if it was picked up anyway in the files. It sounds like probably not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    CTS7822/Z2110+ Should they test for L277 and/or L584?
    As one who lacks the aptitude for the mental gymnastics this requires, thanks.
    We need someone to look at the raw results for all L23+ L51- people and see where Z2110 is negative versus a no call. This is the kind of thing David Reynolds does for L21 or David Carlisle does for U106 (I think).

    Any volunteers?

    What I meant about mental gymastics is the formulas can do the work of one's eyes and memory but if the formula parameters are wrong/I have SNPs programmed incorrectly... well that's no good.

    I've got about 20 SW/Central Asian/Ethnic projects to run through and can do it in a couple of hours without error if I have everything programmed correctly.

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post

    L23+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23; * = L51- ** = Z2103-, Equivalents: S141,L49.1 R1b1a2a (R1b1a2a1 for L150 aggregated here)
    L51+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51; * = L11- ** = Z2115-, Equivalents: /M412/PF6536/S167 R1b1a2a1a

    Z2115+ >>> R1b-EARLY>P25>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>Z2115+; Terminal
    Z2118+ >>> Unpositioned under L23
    PF7589+ >>> equivalent to Z2118
    PF6536+ >>> equivalent to L51
    Hi! I'm L51+/L11- and also S161+ which EA discovered when testing for S136 (which I'm negative) back in 2009.

    Just received my Geno2 results, and per the above:

    Not showing Z2115.
    I am showing Z2118+
    Not showing PF7589.
    Not showing PF6536.

    Best,
    -Paul

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie View Post
    Hi! I'm L51+/L11- and also S161+ which EA discovered when testing for S136 (which I'm negative) back in 2009.

    Just received my Geno2 results, and per the above:

    Not showing Z2115.
    I am showing Z2118+
    Not showing PF7589.
    Not showing PF6536.

    Best,
    -Paul
    Hi Paulie, probably we knew each other at the times of Rootsweb or DNA-forums (for me before 2009). We were close for the STRs, but I came out R-Z2105 and you R-L51, now I'd say R-Z2118*.
    We don't know if Z2118 is equivalent to S161 and if it is comprised in Chromo2. From what you say it is in the region of S136. About this SNP I have written a lot. It is surely comprised in Chromo2, and for BritainsDNA is equivalent to L50 (7,012,023), but I have in that region a deletion of 9bp and am waiting from more than two months for my Chromo2, I don't know why.
    Last edited by Rathna; 12-06-2013 at 08:15 AM.

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