Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Autosomal PCA charts of ancient IE samples compared to modern populations

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,448
    Sex
    Location
    Poland
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z2552
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a

    Poland European Union Poland Pomerania

    Autosomal PCA charts of ancient IE samples compared to modern populations

    RISE431 - Early Unetice from Poland (Leki Male / Bruszczewo):



    RISE00 - Corded Ware sample from Estonia (from Sope):



    RISE395 - Sintashta from Russia (Bol'shekaraganskii):



    RISE386 - Sintashta from Russia (Bulanovo near Orenburg):



    RISE394 - Sintashta from Russia (Bulanovo near Orenburg):



    RISE392 - Sintashta from Russia (Stepnoe VII near Troitsk):



    Andronovo (not sure which sample, it is not mentioned, see below):



    SOURCES:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1197593

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1197743

    Unfortunately samples of modern ethnic Poles were not included in those comparisons.

    Nearly all these samples (including Leki Male from Poland) plot within modern North Slavic continuum.

    Only RISE392 and Andronovo are closer to modern ethnic Mordvins and ethnic Russians from Kargopol.

    The remaining samples cluster with modern Belarusians, Western Ukrainians and Eastern Ukrainians.

    Sample from Estonia (RISE00) is intermediary between modern Belarusians and Estonians.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 08-31-2015 at 02:18 PM.

  2. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Tomenable For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-01-2015),  Anglecynn (08-31-2015),  Coldmountains (08-31-2015),  dp (08-31-2015),  Hando (09-01-2015),  khanabadoshi (09-01-2015),  Lenny Nero (08-31-2015),  lgmayka (09-01-2015),  parasar (08-31-2015),  paulgill (09-01-2015),  sweuro (08-31-2015),  Táltos (09-01-2015),  Varun R (09-01-2015)

  3. #2
    Moderator
    Posts
    2,222
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93 (Indo-Aryan)
    mtDNA (M)
    H28/W(M) : H1b5
    Y-DNA (M)
    Wife (P) : R1a-Z280

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    RISE431 - Early Unetice from Poland (Leki Male / Bruszczewo):



    RISE00 - Corded Ware sample from Estonia (from Sope):



    RISE395 - Sintashta from Russia (Bol'shekaraganskii):



    RISE386 - Sintashta from Russia (Bulanovo near Orenburg):



    RISE394 - Sintashta from Russia (Bulanovo near Orenburg):



    RISE392 - Sintashta from Russia (Stepnoe VII near Troitsk):



    Andronovo (not sure which sample, it is not mentioned, see below):



    SOURCES:

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1197593

    http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/sho...=1#post1197743

    Unfortunately samples of modern ethnic Poles were not included in those comparisons.

    Nearly all these samples (including Leki Male from Poland) plot within modern North Slavic continuum.

    Only RISE392 and Andronovo are closer to modern ethnic Mordvins and ethnic Russians from Kargopol.

    The remaining samples cluster with modern Belarusians, Western Ukrainians and Eastern Ukrainians.

    Sample from Estonia (RISE00) is intermediary between modern Belarusians and Estonians.


    Thanks for posting this. It seems that already in the Sintashta timeframe the modern Eastern Euro genetic profile was established and that modern East Europeans like Ukrainians, Belarussian and Poles changed little like that. Modern Russians and Uralics living in the Transural region or close to it, where Sintashta was located, are often slightly more "eastern"/"northern" than some Sintashta folks. And it is also certain that Sintashta did not evolve from nearby Yamnaya sub-cultures. If I am honest I not expected Proto-Indo-Iranians to have such a "modern" genetic profile being more or less identical to Poles/Ukrainians/Belarusians/Russians but that is certainly quite fascinating for someone like me.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 08-31-2015 at 06:13 PM.

  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-01-2015),  Awale (09-02-2015),  Hando (09-01-2015),  khanabadoshi (09-01-2015),  lgmayka (09-01-2015),  Mellifluous (09-01-2015),  NK19191 (09-01-2015),  paulgill (09-01-2015),  Táltos (09-01-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    233
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Onge
    Nationality
    Earthling
    Y-DNA (P)
    Gangstuh
    mtDNA (M)
    W3a1

    Greater Khorasan Afghanistan Ghaznavid Dynasty Late Saffarid Dynasty Dravida Nadu Canada
    Wow, I didn't know they were very genetically similar to modern day Eastern Europeans! Cool.
    "Humanity is all one body;
    To torture another is simply to wound yourself." - Rahman Baba

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mellifluous For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-01-2015),  Awale (09-02-2015),  Coldmountains (09-01-2015),  dp (09-01-2015),  Hando (09-02-2015),  paulgill (09-01-2015)

  7. #4
    Moderator
    Posts
    2,222
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Z93 (Indo-Aryan)
    mtDNA (M)
    H28/W(M) : H1b5
    Y-DNA (M)
    Wife (P) : R1a-Z280

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Thanks for posting this. It seems that already in the Sintashta timeframe the modern Eastern Euro genetic profile was established and that modern East Europeans like Ukrainians, Belarussian and Poles changed little like that. Modern Russians and Uralics living in the Transural region or close to it, where Sintashta was located, are often slightly more "eastern"/"northern" than some Sintashta folks. And it is also certain that Sintashta did not evolve from nearby Yamnaya sub-cultures. If I am honest I not expected Proto-Indo-Iranians to have such a "modern" genetic profile being more or less identical to Poles/Ukrainians/Belarusians/Russians but that is certainly quite fascinating for someone like me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellifluous View Post
    Wow, I didn't know they were very genetically similar to modern day Eastern Europeans! Cool.
    When I first told my father that he is on his paternal side a direct descendant of Bronze Age/Late Neolithic (far) "Eastern Europeans", which were genetically almost identical to modern eastern Europeans but were also Proto-Indo-Iranians, he was quite shocked but also very fascinated. But maybe he still thinks that I am kidding him lol. Never expected such kind of ancient connection between Slavs/Balts and Afghans prior to testing my Y-DNA and reading all this stuff about modern and ancient population genetics. But for me this two "worlds" were "emotionally" always very close linked to each other because of my personal background. I know this sounds somewhat strange but I grew up with a very unusual and chaotic mix of cultural elements.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 09-01-2015 at 08:30 PM.

  8. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Coldmountains For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-01-2015),  dp (09-01-2015),  Hando (09-02-2015),  khanabadoshi (09-01-2015),  Krefter (09-01-2015),  lgmayka (09-01-2015),  Mellifluous (09-01-2015)

  9. #5
    If I have to spoil the fun however, this PCA is for modern Europeans and the ancient remains are projected onto this plane. So the ancient remains may still have differences in axes along which modern populations show less variations.
    (For instance if modern populations have additional Near Eastern components orthogonal to these principal axes. They don't have to be uniform but are required to vary not too drastically among modern Europeans)

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to malleus For This Useful Post:

     Hando (09-02-2015),  khanabadoshi (09-01-2015),  Vadim Verenich (09-03-2015)

  11. #6
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by malleus View Post
    If I have to spoil the fun however, this PCA is for modern Europeans and the ancient remains are projected onto this plane. So the ancient remains may still have differences in axes along which modern populations show less variations.
    (For instance if modern populations have additional Near Eastern components orthogonal to these principal axes. They don't have to be uniform but are required to vary not too drastically among modern Europeans)
    The ancient samples weren't projected in these runs, unlike in the original study. They were analyzed along with everyone else, with no missing markers.

  12. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-02-2015),  Coldmountains (09-01-2015),  dp (09-01-2015),  Hando (09-02-2015),  khanabadoshi (09-01-2015),  paulgill (09-01-2015),  Táltos (09-02-2015)

  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    The ancient samples weren't projected in these runs, unlike in the original study. They were analyzed along with everyone else, with no missing markers.
    But they are few in number and unless they were given special weights their inclusion would not matter much. Anyway I refuse to believe that ancient samples can be THAT close without much drift even if they were the direct ancestors of the modern populations. Like most PCA's this picture is marred by other axes that harbor variations but are not shown on this plane and this defect is probably more severe in this case than aveage. All PCA's of this type are projections whether the axes were determined with or without ancient samples.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to malleus For This Useful Post:

     Hando (09-02-2015),  paulgill (09-01-2015)

  15. #8
    Banned
    Posts
    1,280
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Celt/German/Iberian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b2a2b1

    Germany Imperial United Kingdom Norway Spain
    S-C Asians have recent common ancestors with all Europeans not just East. But I guess especially East. If you think about it "Teal"(Mysterious ANE-rich West Asians) and ENF connect all West Eurasians. "Teal" especially might be a pretty recent connection.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Krefter For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Hando (09-02-2015)

  17. #9
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,435
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    (Mod)

    OK everyone, that's more than enough OT talk, it beats the purpose.

    PS: Can someone move the OT discussion into a new thread? Thank you.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  18. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Awale (09-02-2015),  Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Hando (09-02-2015),  Mellifluous (09-02-2015),  Táltos (09-02-2015)

  19. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,459
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    G-V2154
    mtDNA (M)
    HV4a2a

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    (Mod)

    OK everyone, that's more than enough OT talk, it beats the purpose.

    PS: Can someone move the OT discussion into a new thread? Thank you.
    See Miscellaneous Chat Thread.

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Humanist For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-02-2015),  Awale (09-02-2015),  Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Táltos (09-02-2015)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 52
    Last Post: 06-05-2020, 11:05 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-04-2018, 04:12 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-26-2017, 04:32 AM
  4. Should ancient samples be used with modern calculators?
    By Sorcelow in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-11-2017, 01:38 AM
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-15-2015, 09:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •