Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 389

Thread: Genetic Heritage of the Balto-Slavic Speaking Populations

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    687
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-L550 (L1025-)

    Genetic Heritage of the Balto-Slavic Speaking Populations

    Have not read yet, just noticed.
    Here you go:
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0135820

  2. The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to parastais For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-03-2015),  Anglo- Virginian (10-30-2015),  Captain Nordic (07-26-2016),  Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Generalissimo (09-02-2015),  George (09-02-2015),  leonardo (09-03-2015),  lgmayka (09-02-2015),  Megalophias (09-02-2015),  parasar (09-02-2015),  paulgill (12-22-2015),  Táltos (09-03-2015),  Tomenable (09-02-2015),  Volat (09-03-2015)

  3. #2
    Legacy Account
    Posts
    7,362
    Sex
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Nationality
    British
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    United Kingdom
    Abstract:

    The Slavic branch of the Balto-Slavic sub-family of Indo-European languages underwent rapid divergence as a result of the spatial expansion of its speakers from Central-East Europe, in early medieval times. This expansion–mainly to East Europe and the northern Balkans–resulted in the incorporation of genetic components from numerous autochthonous populations into the Slavic gene pools. Here, we characterize genetic variation in all extant ethnic groups speaking Balto-Slavic languages by analyzing mitochondrial DNA (n = 6,876), Y-chromosomes (n = 6,079) and genome-wide SNP profiles (n = 296), within the context of other European populations. We also reassess the phylogeny of Slavic languages within the Balto-Slavic branch of Indo-European. We find that genetic distances among Balto-Slavic populations, based on autosomal and Y-chromosomal loci, show a high correlation (0.9) both with each other and with geography, but a slightly lower correlation (0.7) with mitochondrial DNA and linguistic affiliation. The data suggest that genetic diversity of the present-day Slavs was predominantly shaped in situ, and we detect two different substrata: ‘central-east European’ for West and East Slavs, and ‘south-east European’ for South Slavs. A pattern of distribution of segments identical by descent between groups of East-West and South Slavs suggests shared ancestry or a modest gene flow between those two groups, which might derive from the historic spread of Slavic people.

  4. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Jean M For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-03-2015),  Captain Nordic (07-26-2016),  Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Generalissimo (09-02-2015),  I1-Z63 (10-29-2015),  Illyro-Vlach (12-26-2015),  leonardo (09-03-2015),  parasar (09-02-2015),  psaglav (12-30-2015),  Tomenable (09-02-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,733
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    I noticed that their Russian North sample is not the usual Kargopol/HGDP one that clusters with Mordovians, but four individuals from the village of Pinega, eastern Archangelsk oblast.

    They aren't really like other North Russians such as the Kargopol sample, and look more like Vepsians with a bit of Komi admixture genetically. Srkz confirmed this with IBD.


  6. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Shaikorth For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-03-2015),  Awale (09-10-2015),  Captain Nordic (07-26-2016),  Coldmountains (09-02-2015),  Megalophias (09-02-2015),  psaglav (12-30-2015),  Táltos (09-03-2015),  Tony 6Whiskeys (03-10-2019)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    687
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-L550 (L1025-)

    And now, honestly I could not understand half of what they wrote, but to begin the fun, this quote:
    In contrast, a clear genetic border exists nowadays between Poles and their immediate western neighbors Germans, and even between a West-Slavic-speaking minority–Sorbs–and their German host population

    Ok, and now less troll mode:
    The presence of a substantial “Baltic substratum” in the genomes of extant Slavs within East Europe might in part explain their genetic closeness to each other and difference from some neighboring non-Slavic groups.

    Now, I hope someone smarter than me puts kotlets to one side and insects to other

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,619
    Sex

    Hehe...they sampled some of the Poles in Estonia, and a few actually look...North Russian.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (09-03-2015),  Awale (09-10-2015)

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,141
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z2552
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union
    As usual, they didn't take any samples from Western Poles (locations in the map below):



    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo
    Hehe...they sampled some of the Poles in Estonia
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth
    I noticed that their Russian North sample is not the usual Kargopol/HGDP one that clusters with Mordovians, but four individuals from the village of Pinega, eastern Archangelsk oblast.
    Where did you find this info? Which file contains info about locations of all samples?
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-02-2015 at 11:10 PM.

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,141
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z2552
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union
    From the study:

    (...) Expansion of Slavic languages took place in an area already occupied by speakers of the Baltic languages [49,50]. Despite significant linguistic divergence between extant East Baltic and Slavic languages (Fig 1) [7], Baltic populations are genetically the closest to East Slavs (Fig 2A and 2B, Table K in S1 File) [45,64–66] and here we found that they bear the highest number of shared IBD segments with the combined group of East-West Slavs (Fig 4, Table G in S1 File). The presence of a substantial “Baltic substratum” in the genomes of extant Slavs within East Europe might in part explain their genetic closeness to each other and difference from some neighboring non-Slavic groups. (...)
    Also the presence of large ethnically Slavic minorities in Lithuania and Latvia might explain this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...#Ethnic_groups

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...r_World_War_II

    After WW2 Slavic minorities have been up to 21% of population in Lithuania and up to 44% in Latvia. Before WWs 1 and 2, that was an even larger percent in case of Lithuania, but lower in case of Latvia.

    So instead of an ancient "Baltic substratum", it can be a more recent "Slavic superstratum".

    It can as well be a common Balto-Slavic ancestry, instead of some "Baltic substratum".
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-02-2015 at 11:32 PM.

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,733
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    As usual, they didn't take any samples from Western Poles (locations in the map below):



    Where did you find this info? Which file contains info about locations of all samples?
    I figured out they used the four Pinega samples on their PCA's because these samples were released on Estonian Biocentre site, and from testing done by Srkz and others I knew what to expect (Veps/Komi mix with little Slavic autosomal ancestry). North Russians from Kargopol (or any Estonian Poles) do not cluster like the (Pinega) North Russians in the PCA below, but close to Mordovians as we have seen in various tests for a while.

     

  13. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,141
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z2552
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union
    Thanks for the info. But I can't see the PCA from the spoiler.

    ======================

    From the paper:

    (...) The results of our study have shown the close genetic proximity of the majority of West and East Slavic populations inhabiting the geographic area from Poland in the west, to the Volga River in the East (Fig 2A and 2B, Tables A,B in S1 File). Some mtDNA haplotypes of hgs H5, H6, U4a were more frequent in the genomes of West and East Slavic speakers, providing thereby further evidence for the matrilineal unity of West and East Slavs [28,36] as well as continuity of mtDNA diversity in the territory of modern Poland for at least two millennia [38]. (...)
    IMO this shows that this Poland-Volga unity dates back all the way to Corded Ware times.

    Autosomal proximity seems to only confirm this:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...rn-populations

    ^ "Autosomal PCA charts of ancient IE samples compared to modern populations"
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-02-2015 at 11:43 PM.

  14. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,141
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Polish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-Z2552
    mtDNA (M)
    W6a

    Poland Poland Pomerania European Union
    Authors of this study do not seem to be trying to establish where was the original homeland of Slavs. They claim that South Slavs and East Slavs are admixed with pre-Slavic substrates. But they don't write, which Slavic population is NOT admixed with pre-Slavic substrate, and thus located in Proto-Slavic homeland.

    But they find a sharp genetic boundary between Sorbs and Germans, which is quite telling.

    Czechs show a sign of assimilating a pre-Slavic Celto-Germanic substrate, but Sorbs do not.

    Was there a pre-Slavic substrate in Bohemia, but no pre-Slavic substrate in Lusatia?

    Moreover, modern North-West Slavs (Sorbs, Poles, Kashubians) cluster very closely autosomally with East Slavs, as well as with ancient Corded Ware and Unetice samples from Central Europe (LINK).

    Why do North-West Slavs cluster autosomally, in terms of mtDNA, and in terms of Y-DNA (R1a*, I2a*) with Copper-Bronze Age ancient DNA samples from Central Europe, but not with modern Germans?

    Is it possible that ancient East Germanic tribes did not resemble modern Germans genetically?

    On the other hand, Germanic-speakers expanded into Central Europe only during the Iron Age. And all these ancient samples clustering with modern Northern Slavs are from the Copper-Bronze Ages.

    *Both R1a and I2a were found in aDNA from Unetice culture. Here R1a from Early Unetice:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...o-Unetice-aDNA

    I2a comes from Unetice (Esperstedt) and Urnfield (Dorste) samples from East Germany.

    ======================================

    To sum up:

    North-West Slavs resemble in all ways (uniparental & autosomal) Copper & Bronze Age samples from Central Europe, but don't resemble modern Germans. This applies also to Sorbs, so we can't blame post-WW2 resettlements for this, because Sorbs haven't been moving anywhere for the last 1400 years!
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-03-2015 at 12:17 AM.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Tomenable For This Useful Post:

     leonardo (09-03-2015)

Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Poll: Pan-Slavic or individual Slavic language sections?
    By Administrator in forum Forum Support
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2015, 04:07 PM
  2. Replies: 46
    Last Post: 03-11-2015, 07:03 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-25-2015, 07:28 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-30-2014, 05:58 PM
  5. Replies: 53
    Last Post: 11-03-2013, 11:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •