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Thread: Znertu's results (Armenian %?)

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    Znertu's results (Armenian %?)

    Hi all,

    Some of you might know me from other forums. I'm Kurdish and I had my DNA tested several years back. A recent blog post by Mfa renewed my interest in finding out how much Armenian admixture amounts to.

    How do I know I'm part Armo, and not something else?

    • I have a genetic pull towards Armenians.
    • A Turk whose mother I'm distantly related to, found out that he's partly Armenian descended through his maternal side. I have the same X-DNA as him, so my Armenian admixture most probably comes from my maternal side.
    • The region I'm from, DÍrsim, is known for having sheltered lots of Armenians. More specifically, the villages where my forefathers lived also had Armenians living there.
    • Some Armenian relatives in AF.
    • Often got the remark that I look Armo.
    • A great uncle of mine apparently had done research, and found out our tribe was part Armenian.


    The problem is that different calculators give conflicting results. Regarding fst distances, sometimes Kurds are my closest match and sometimes Armenians. (and in a few cases, Turks)

    I'll post all the notable results here, curious to see what ya'll have to say. I'll limit the fst distances to the top 5 to keep it tidy.

    Dodecad K12b

    1 Caucasus 43.79
    2 Gedrosia 26.67
    3 Southwest_Asian 11.76
    4 Atlantic_Med 10.22
    5 North_European 3.36
    6 Northwest_African 1.46
    7 Siberian 0.99
    8 Southeast_Asian 0.97
    9 East_African 0.51
    10 South_Asian 0.27

    Fst:
    1 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 5.92
    2 Kurd (Dodecad) 6.36
    3 Iranian (Dodecad) 7.21
    4 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 9.2
    5 Iranians (Behar) 9.59

    World9

    1 Caucasus_Gedrosia 50.98
    2 Southern 33
    3 Atlantic_Baltic 10.79
    4 South_Asian 3.03
    5 Siberian 0.84
    6 East_Asian 0.54
    7 African 0.45
    8 Amerindian 0.36

    Fst:
    1 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 2.72
    2 Kurd (Dodecad) 3.04
    3 Armenians (Yunusbayev) 4.69
    4 Armenian (Dodecad) 5.29
    5 Uzbekistan_Jews 5.29

    Eurogenes_ANE K7

    ANE 16.03%
    ASE 3.40%
    WHG-UHG 11.06%
    East_Eurasian -
    West_African 0.24%
    East_African 0.63%
    ENF 68.63%

    Dodecad V3

    1 West_Asian 40.88
    2 Mediterranean 25.09
    3 Southwest_Asian 12.57
    4 South_Asian 7.86
    5 West_European 6.93
    6 East_European 3.69
    7 Northwest_African 1.19
    8 Northeast_Asian 0.74
    9 East_African 0.36
    10 Southeast_Asian 0.27
    11 Neo_African 0.21
    12 Palaeo_African 0.18

    Fst:
    1 Kurd (Xing) 4.21
    2 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 5.02
    3 Kurd (Dodecad) 6
    4 Azerbaijan_Jews (Behar) 6.94
    5 Turkish (Dodecad) 7.9

    MDLP K=12

    1 Caucasian 45.49
    2 Paleo_Mediterranean 27.74
    3 South_Central_Asian 6.46
    4 Celto_Germanic 5.07
    5 Altaic_Turkic 4.01
    6 Iberian 2.79
    7 Balto_Finnic 2.76
    8 Uralic_Permic 2.37
    9 Volga_Uralic 1.42
    10 Paleo_Balkanic 1.27
    11 Paleo_North_European 0.6

    Fst:
    1 TRK (Turk) 7.55
    2 ARM (Armenian) 16.53
    3 CPR (Cypriot) 20.12
    4 ASHK (Ashkenazi) 22.23
    5 SIC (Sicilian) 24.01

    Eurogenes K13

    1 West_Asian 37.87
    2 East_Med 34.07
    3 West_Med 10.02
    4 North_Atlantic 5.32
    5 South_Asian 5.29
    6 Red_Sea 3.21
    7 Baltic 1.72
    8 Sub-Saharan 0.77
    9 East_Asian 0.63
    10 Amerindian 0.55
    11 Siberian 0.55

    Fst:
    1 Armenian 4.68
    2 Kurdish 6.89
    3 Georgian_Jewish 7.26
    4 Azeri 7.85
    5 Assyrian 8.81

    McDonald's
    "Most likely fit is 43.3% (+- 0.0%) Mideast (all Iran)
    and 56.7% (+- 0.0%) Mideast (all Caucasus Area)
    which is 100% total Mideast

    The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
    most likely at the top
    Iranian= 0.433 Armenian= 0.567

    This is somewhere in the Caucasus area. The American on the chromosomes
    in small and weeak enough to be noise."
    Last edited by Znertu; 09-08-2015 at 08:28 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Znertu View Post
    Hi all,

    Some of you might know me from other forums. I'm Kurdish and I had my DNA tested several years back. A recent blog post by Mfa renewed my interest in finding out how much Armenian admixture amounts to.

    How do I know I'm part Armo, and not something else?
    What's up, Zert. Were you included in any of Dienekes' IBD runs from a few years back? If you had genuine Armenian admixture, it would have likely shown via the various IBD analyses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    What's up, Zert. Were you included in any of Dienekes' IBD runs from a few years back? If you had genuine Armenian admixture, it would have likely shown via the various IBD analyses.
    Long time, Humanist. Are you talking about his runs wherein the individuals were sorted in different populations (pop)? I remember that I was in the Armenian pop back then. I'll try to find it if that's what you're talking about. I'm KRD002 in this blog post by Mfa by the way, where I also appear to cluster a hair closer to Armenians, though he assessed my Armenian ancestry to be around 25-40%.

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    You have to be really careful about interpreting those FST distances produced by the Oracles, their values are sensitive to other factors besides differences in component percentages. The calculator effect could also make it appear as if you're closer or more distant to a population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    You have to be really careful about interpreting those FST distances produced by the Oracles, their values are sensitive to other factors besides differences in component percentages. The calculator effect could also make it appear as if you're closer or more distant to a population.
    Yes, I was puzzled by the fst distances since they could differ so much. I figured there had to be something up with them.

    I tried a simplistic approach of using certain specific components which are typically elevated among Kurds, compared to Armenians, to see how much I deviate from the average. For Dodecad V3, this worked quite well (61-67% Kurdish, depending on the component). Predictably then, for Eurogenes K13 I appeared more Armenian. (except for North Atlantic, which is strangely even higher than the Kurdish average)
    Last edited by Znertu; 09-08-2015 at 11:20 PM.

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    Given the high degree of autosomal profile overlap between Kurds and Armenians (alongside Persians, Azeris etc.), it'd be pretty difficult to estimate it accurately based on these "global" calculators alone.

    You could try using 4mix to get a more sensitive measure, or check out Kurd (the user here)'s various West-South Asian specific calculators (please see the auDNA section).

    IBD is useful for qualitative confirmation of Armenian ancestry (e.g. ++++ Armenian segments vs. ++/+ Iranian, Turkish etc.), but your query here is quantitatively based, so I'm not sure it'll be of any use in giving you an actual percentage.

    A very warm public welcome to the forum as well, brother.

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    Cuba Vietnam
    Quote Originally Posted by Znertu View Post
    Hi all,

    Some of you might know me from other forums. I'm Kurdish and I had my DNA tested several years back. A recent blog post by Mfa renewed my interest in finding out how much Armenian admixture amounts to.

    How do I know I'm part Armo, and not something else?

    ...
    This is somewhere in the Caucasus area. The American on the chromosomes
    in small and weeak enough to be noise."[/I]
    Hello, The dataset of Bahar or Yunusbayev which is used for Armenian stats of various Calculators have some problematics. I havent meet any Armenian results which even close to population average of Armenians stat. There might be several reasons for this.

    1-) Due to calculator effects, there are deviations in pop averages or individual results.
    2-) I think that Armenans in Yunusbayevs or Bahar's are actualy not Armenians of Armenia but probably Hemshin people who speak Armenian and genetically close to Lazs and Turk_trabzon like me.
    3-) or Yunusbayevs and Bahar dataset are from a specific region in Armenia but does not represent south and west Armenians who are Armenians of Anatolia.

    Third assumption seems more valid for me. I think that Armenian people have very wide genetic diversity due to its religious and missionary character of Apostolic Church. Thats why it might be hard to detect Armenian Ancestry over specific Armenian Autosomal results. FF matching or YDNA, XDNA mtDNA matching would be better for understanding such an Armenian ancestry.

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    I can't seem to refind the Dodecad run where I was placed among Armenians.

    I'm DOD 834 by the way. In the FastIBD Analysis of Balkans and West Asia:

    Iranian_D: -0.13
    Armenian_D: -0.03
    Turkish_D: 0.34
    Kurd_D: 1.08
    Assyrian_D: -0.45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Znertu View Post
    I can't seem to refind the Dodecad run where I was placed among Armenians.

    I'm DOD 834 by the way. In the FastIBD Analysis of Balkans and West Asia:

    Iranian_D: -0.13
    Armenian_D: -0.03
    Turkish_D: 0.34
    Kurd_D: 1.08
    Assyrian_D: -0.45
    If my memory of how to read that data is correct, in order of significance, that would be:

    Kurd_D: 1.08
    Turkish_D: 0.34
    Armenian_D: -0.03
    Iranian_D: -0.13
    Assyrian_D: -0.45

    So, perhaps you have more Anatolian Turkish than Armenian admixture?

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    Turkey Ottoman Empire Ottoman Empire 2
    This is what I got for that run:

    Armenian_D 0.92
    Turkish_D 0.17
    Greek_D -1.19
    Assyrian_D 0.01
    Kurd_D -0.43
    Iranian_D -1.32
    Bulgarian_D 0.63
    Romanian_D -1.89
    Adygei 0.71
    Georgians -0.1
    Romanians_14 -1.02
    Iranians_19 -0.78
    Turks -0.23
    Cypriots -0.78
    Armenians_16 1.82
    Kurds_ Y 0.37
    Bulgarians_Y 0.57
    Armenians_Y 0.99
    Abkhasians_Y 1.77
    North_Ossetians_Y -0.22
    Last edited by Hanna; 09-09-2015 at 04:27 PM.

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