Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 61

Thread: Do Southeast Asians have West Eurasian ancestry?

  1. #21
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,382
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    V-c

    New Zealand Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Poland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    Regarding CHG K8, I forget to comment on the Lahu, Dai and Kinh populations. If you can see it seem have Lahu and Kinh have very tiny CHG almost negligible levels which might even be noise while the Dai seem to completely lack CHG. So it seems these populations have negligible or lack West Eurasian ancestry altogether. I also have to remark that Lahu and Dai are minority groups who lives in the remote mountainous areas of Northern Southeast Asia and Southern China while Kinh are the predominant ethnicity of Vietnam and parts of Southern China.

    The reason I also put these three above populations are to show that they seem to lack CHG which imply that they also don't have genuine South Asian ancestry unlike most other Southeast Asian populations like Burmese, Malay, Cambodian, Thai, etc.
    The CHG in SE Asians in CHG K8 seems to come from interaction with South Asians. This might be explain by the fact the three populations live in more remote geographical terrain (for the first two populaton) and farther away from India (for the Kinh) than the other Southeast Asians who live in lowland and coastal areas which are easier for South Asian and Arab traders (in the case of Malays) to reach.
    To respond to your question in two fold, I expect Southeast Asians to have interacted with South Asians. If South Indians had influence on Australian Aboriginal genetics, I'm sure they contributed to southeast Asians and therefore to Polynesians to a minor extent.

    On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.

    My recently posted Dodecad World9 results are a good example, especially for my sister.
    Last edited by BalkanKiwi; 11-09-2016 at 02:49 AM.
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


    Hidden Content

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to BalkanKiwi For This Useful Post:

     okarinaofsteiner (04-11-2018)

  3. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    To respond to your question in two fold, I expect Southeast Asians to have interacted with South Asians. If South Indians had influence on Australian Aboriginal genetics, I'm sure they contributed to southeast Asians and therefore to Polynesians to a minor extent.

    On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.

    My recently posted Dodecad World9 results are a good example, especially for my sister.
    Hmm you and your sister do indeed do have South Asian component which the average European don't seem to score any. In your case, the South Asian might be actual South Asian or just ASI admixture.

    I should also explain that initially, I am not quite sure about the "South Asian" component. There are two situations here; the first one that it is "South Asian" is actual South Asian ancestry while the second situation is that "South Asian" is not "Indian" admixture at all but Ancestral South Indian or ASI (best represented for now by Onge although they are still very far genetically). If it is indeed the first situation which is actual South Asian ancestry, there might be indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry carried in the form of Iran Neolithic through the South Asian component as well. This is because that South Indians, who presumably are the population that introduce South Asian admixture into SE Asia, can be modeled as around 40-50%ish Iran Neolithic (which is a West Eurasian component)+ASI (best represented by Onge for now).

    Now I have evidence that suggest that the first situation in that the "South Asian" admixture in SE Asian populations are genuine. The evidences are the calculator averages that suggest actual "South Asian" gene flow which is seen through the indirect minor West Eurasian components SE Asian populations score in some calculators like ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and CHG K8, etc.

    Here are the pages that Cambodians score score some minor indirect West Eurasian in ANE K6 and Iranian Neolithic K6.

    Unfortunately Cambodians are the only SE Asian populations in the spreadsheet but but if Cambodians really have minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry through South Asian/Indian admixture, other Southeast Asians like Filipinos, Burmese, Indonesians, Malays and Thais should have minor West Eurasian admix as well.

    Another calculator that suggest that suggest indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Southeast Asians is CHG K8. The West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like component in this case is "CHG" which is seen in minor but likely genuine amounts in many SE Asian populations.

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi
    On some calculators my sister and I score above average ASI and South Asian for Western Europeans. Whether this is due to our minor Polynesian and therefore Southeast Asian ancestry, a coincidence from early European migration, or a combination of both, its probably hard to say.
    I agree it is hard to say whether it is due to minor Polynesian or coincidence from early European migration . Can you elaborate on the Early European migration in this case? The "South Asian" might also just be ASI.

    Pardon me for such a lengthy post. It is difficult to me to write this post into words as this is a rather complicated subject.
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 11-09-2016 at 03:35 AM.

  4. #23
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,382
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    V-c

    New Zealand Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Poland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    Hmm you and your sister do indeed do have South Asian component which the average European don't seem to score any. In your case, the South Asian might be actual South Asian or just ASI admixture.

    I should also explain that initially, I am not quite sure about the "South Asian" component. There are two situations here; the first one that it is "South Asian" is actual South Asian ancestry while the second situation is that "South Asian" is not "Indian" admixture at all but Ancestral South Indian or ASI (best represented for now by Onge although they are still very far genetically). If it is indeed the first situation which is actual South Asian ancestry, there might be indirect minor West Eurasian ancestry carried in the form of Iran Neolithic through the South Asian component as well. This is because that South Indians, who presumably are the population that introduce South Asian admixture into SE Asia, can be modeled as around 40-50%ish Iran Neolithic (which is a West Eurasian component)+ASI (best represented by Onge for now).

    Now I have evidence that suggest that the first situation in that the "South Asian" admixture in SE Asian populations are genuine. The evidences are the calculator averages that suggest actual "South Asian" gene flow which is seen through the indirect minor West Eurasian components SE Asian populations score in some calculators like ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 and CHG K8, etc.

    Here are the pages that Cambodians score score some minor indirect West Eurasian in ANE K6 and Iranian Neolithic K6.

    Unfortunately Cambodians are the only SE Asian populations in the spreadsheet but but if Cambodians really have minor indirect West Eurasian ancestry through South Asian/Indian admixture, other Southeast Asians like Filipinos, Burmese, Indonesians, Malays and Thais should have minor West Eurasian admix as well.

    Another calculator that suggest that suggest indirect West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like ancestry in Southeast Asians is CHG K8. The West Eurasian/West Eurasian-like component in this case is "CHG" which is seen in minor but likely genuine amounts in many SE Asian populations.



    I agree it is hard to say whether it is due to minor Polynesian or coincidence from early European migration . Can you elaborate on the Early European migration in this case? The "South Asian" might also just be ASI.

    Pardon me for such a lengthy post. It is difficult to me to write this post into words as this is a rather complicated subject.
    Thanks for the detailed reply. As you know some calculators use different reference populations for South Asian, which probably makes it harder to differentiate, as you've alluded to. I score Asia Minor on FTDNA with hints of it on various calculators. If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


    Hidden Content

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to BalkanKiwi For This Useful Post:

     Tsakhur (11-09-2016)

  6. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    Thanks for the detailed reply. As you know some calculators use different reference populations for South Asian, which probably makes it harder to differentiate, as you've alluded to. I score Asia Minor on FTDNA with hints of it on various calculators. If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.
    Yes I agree that many calculators use different reference populations for South Asian component which makes it hard to know the origin of such component. This why I like Kurd's ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 or Chad's CHG K8 because it does not use "South Asian" but separate into various West Eurasian components, Eastern non-African and ASI components.

    I hope members like David/Generalissmo, Kurd, Chad and Ryukendo, etc become more interest in SE Asian genetics and investigate the mystery of the "South Asian" component and either its West Eurasian or ASI affinities.

    For now, it seems a lot of members here don't seem to have much knowledge or interest regarding the SE Asian genetics.
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 11-09-2016 at 08:03 AM.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Tsakhur For This Useful Post:

     BalkanKiwi (11-09-2016)

  8. #25
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,382
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    V-c

    New Zealand Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Poland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    Yes I agree that many calculators use different reference populations for South Asian component which makes it hard to know the origin of such component. This why I like Kurd's ANE K6, Iran Neolithic K6 or Chad's CHG K8 because it does not use "South Asian" but separate into various West Eurasian components, Eastern non-African and ASI components.

    I hope members like David/Generalissmo, Kurd, Chad and Ryukendo, etc become more interest in SE Asian genetics and investigate the mystery of the "South Asian" component and either its West Eurasian or ASI affinities.

    For now, it seems a lot of members here don't seem to have much knowledge or interest regarding the SE Asian genetics.
    Agreed. I personally think SE Asian genetics are fascinating, especially with their link to Polynesians and their eventual migration end at Easter Island.

    Just out of interest with regards to ASI results:

    Ancient Eurasia K6

    FTDNA - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.71
    Sister - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.86
    English average - 0.30
    Croatian average - 1.00

    This varies on calculators.
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


    Hidden Content

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to BalkanKiwi For This Useful Post:

     Tsakhur (11-09-2016)

  10. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    If true, I assume some of my West Asian ancestors could have interacted with South Asians. Just a theory. It probably wouldn't account for the ASI I get.
    You have "West Asian" ancestors as in Europeans have Early European Farmer/Anatolian Neolithic and Natufian ancestors who originally come from Southwest Asia and the Near East?
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 11-09-2016 at 08:48 AM.

  11. #27
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    Agreed. I personally think SE Asian genetics are fascinating, especially with their link to Polynesians and their eventual migration end at Easter Island.

    Just out of interest with regards to ASI results:

    Ancient Eurasia K6

    FTDNA - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.71
    Sister - Ancestral_South_Eurasian 1.86
    English average - 0.30
    Croatian average - 1.00

    This varies on calculators.
    Yes I agree that SE Asia genetics and their links to populations like Polynesians, Melanesians/Papuans and Aborigines are very astounding!!

    Unfortunately, most people currently seem to be much much more interest in West Eurasian genetics and don't seem to have much knowledge on non-West Eurasian genetics. Even the majority of Asian members at Eastbound88, a forum for mostly Asian users, barely know anything regarding the genetics of SE Asia/East Asia.

    Is interesting that even Croatian and English averages score tiny ASI on K6. It might also be noise or some Eastern Non-African/Eastern Non-African like affinity in some Europeans.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Tsakhur For This Useful Post:

     BalkanKiwi (11-09-2016)

  13. #28
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,382
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    V-c

    New Zealand Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Poland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    You have "West Asian" ancestors as in Europeans have Early European Farmer/Anatolian Neolithic and Natufian ancestors who originally come from Southwest Asia and the Near East?
    I suspect I might have minor West Asian influence on my Croatian line, and not just the normal EEF migration for predominantly Western Europeans. Nothing I can prove anyway.

    I agree with the noise aspect. Once again it's nothing that can be proven, and probably highlights the variability among Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised if I had a South Asian ancestor connected to my SE Asian line in some way. Throughout all that time it's hard to believe no mixing didn't occur, at least once.
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


    Hidden Content

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to BalkanKiwi For This Useful Post:

     Tsakhur (11-09-2016)

  15. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    405
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by BalkanKiwi View Post
    I suspect I might have minor West Asian influence on my Croatian line, and not just the normal EEF migration for predominantly Western Europeans. Nothing I can prove anyway.

    I agree with the noise aspect. Once again it's nothing that can be proven, and probably highlights the variability among Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised if I had a South Asian ancestor connected to my SE Asian line in some way. Throughout all that time it's hard to believe no mixing didn't occur, at least once.
    I agree it might even be something impossible to prove. Btw have you seen any gedmatch results of Maoris or any other Polynesians?

    Would you say I move the content of this thread to the Oceania thread?

    This is Eastbound88 which the majority of Asian members hardly know anything regarding the genetics of Southeast or East Asia. Here is the Anthropology and Genetic section of Eastbound88, as you can see it seem there are very few Southeast Asians who have taken Autosomal DNA tests, most of them being Filipinos and Vietnamese. It seem there are hardly any genetic experts there unlike here where they are plenty.

  16. #30
    Administrator
    Posts
    1,382
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27
    mtDNA (M)
    V-c

    New Zealand Croatia Bosnia and Herzegovina Poland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    I agree it might even be something impossible to prove. Btw have you seen any gedmatch results of Maoris or any other Polynesians?

    Would you say I move the content of this thread to the Oceania thread?

    This is Eastbound88 which the majority of Asian members hardly know anything regarding the genetics of Southeast or East Asia. Here is the Anthropology and Genetic section of Eastbound88, as you can see it seem there are very few Southeast Asians who have taken Autosomal DNA tests, most of them being Filipinos and Vietnamese. It seem there are hardly any genetic experts there unlike here where they are plenty.
    I've gone and shifted the whole thread to the Oceanian section.

    This is a spreadsheet created by Kalani Mondoy, who is Hawaiian and does quite a bit of Polynesian DNA work (he has a blog). He's compiled GEDMatch results of various Oceanian peoples.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1507683586
    Known ancestry - English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Bosnian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.


    Hidden Content

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to BalkanKiwi For This Useful Post:

     Tsakhur (11-09-2016)

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-10-2015, 02:35 AM
  2. Replies: 105
    Last Post: 05-31-2015, 06:27 AM
  3. Replies: 52
    Last Post: 02-18-2015, 10:14 AM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-18-2013, 12:30 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-17-2013, 05:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •