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Thread: The y DNA haplogroup of the Prophet

  1. #1
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    The y DNA haplogroup of the Prophet

    Does anyone have more information on this?

    Mohammed, Hashemites, probably related Y-DNA

    Arab DNA forums and DNA Project admins reported that two test results of members of the Jordanian royal family (private kits) are positive for L859. The possible Y-DNA ancestor is Abdul Muttalib (497-578), the grandfather of Islamic prophet Muhammad (570-632). The haplogroup J1-P58-L147.1-L858-L859 can be observed in other members of Hashemites clan, founded by the great-grandfather of Muhammad and also within the larger paternal Quraish tribe. No descendant by classical genealogy (Hashemite, Sharif, Abbasid) of Abdul Muttalib has published positive testing for L859.
    http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_famo..._related_Y-DNA

    DNA could illuminate Islam's lineage
    Rasha Elass
    June 19, 2009

    For almost 1,600 years, the title Sharif, Sayyed, or Habib has been bestowed on Muslims who have been able to trace their roots back to the Prophet Mohammed through intricate family trees, oral histories and genealogical records. But now an American DNA lab says it may have identified the DNA signature of descendants of the Prophet Mohammed, and perhaps the prospect of a direct, more accurate means of confirming or identifying such a connection.

    Family Tree DNA, a genealogy and genetics-testing company in Houston, Texas, says it made the discovery after several clients, reputed by oral family histories and some supporting documentation to be descended from the Prophet Mohammed, asked to have their paternal DNA sequences mapped. "With these various samples, we were able to identify an overlapping signature in their DNA, a common thread for all of them, which is their genetic lineage from the Prophet, if their oral tradition is accurate," said Bennett Greenspan, chief executive of Family Tree DNA, which is said to have amassed one of the largest DNA databases in the world.

    The company declined to identify any of the men on the grounds of client privacy, but Mr Greenspan said "several samples came from men in different parts of the Arab world". Genetic testing can trace the maternal or paternal line by mapping the DNA in the sex chromosome passed on by parents. The father passes on the Y chromosome to his son and the mother her X chromosome, so only male descendants can trace both their patriarchal and matriarchal lineage. Female descendants, possessing two X chromosomes, can test only their matriarchal lineage, also known as mitochondrial DNA, or mtDNA.

    In recent years there have been many projects attempting to identify the DNA signatures of famous people, tribes and populations that inhabit specific regions - sometimes with surprising results. In 2003 a group of international geneticists found that eight per cent of men in what used to be the Mongolian Empire were descended from Genghis Khan. According to a ground-breaking paper in The American Journal of Human Genetics in 2003, this meant there were no fewer than 16 million descendants of the 12th-century ruler living today.

    The DNA signature of Marie Antoinette is also said to have been determined, meaning anyone suspecting a genetic link to the former queen of France can confirm their royal roots by testing their mtDNA. Such analysis can create controversy. When the DNA signature of Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States, was isolated, it appeared to give credence to the theory that Jefferson, revered as one of the America's founding fathers, had fathered a child with his slave, Sally Hemmings.

    But it could not be confirmed beyond a doubt because although Eston Hemmings, the child of the slave, shared the same Y chromosomal DNA as Jefferson, he could have been the offspring of any of Jefferson's male relatives living in Virginia at the time. The Prophet Mohammed had no surviving sons but his daughter Fatima married her paternal second cousin, Ali, producing two grandsons: Hassan and Hussein. Both have a traceable line of male descendants.

    Because Ali and the Prophet Mohammed share the same grandfather, their paternal DNA is identical. Descendants can confirm their lineage when they reflect similar patterns. Most Islamic scholars agree there is nothing objectionable about testing individual DNA - and countries such as the UAE encourage DNA use in criminal forensics - but there are complex rulings when it comes to using DNA in court for establishing lineage.

    According to the Kuwait-based Islamic Organisation for Medical Sciences, a forum where scholars meet regularly to discuss scientific and medical ethics in Islam, the use of DNA is permissible in certain cases. "A mechanism called qiyafah, similar to an expert witness, existed at the time of the Prophet," said Sheikh Musa Furber, a scholar in Islamic law at the Abu Dhabi-based Tabah Foundation. "The Prophet would send the people to an expert who can look at overall physical resemblance to deduce who might be the father. Today, instead of qiyafah, we should consider DNA testing."

    But Islamic courts do not accept DNA evidence in establishing the paternity of a child born in wedlock, as the law typically considers the mother's husband to be the father, assuming she was not pregnant when married. There is another issue that arises in the Islamic tradition when using DNA to establish lineage: "Lineage, or nasab, in Islamic law assumes lawful intercourse," Sheikh Musa said. "But since a DNA test cannot prove lawful intercourse, it cannot stand as proof of lineage from a legal perspective."

    There are a few privately funded lineage projects in the region, such as the Arab DNA Project and the Arab J1e Y-DNA Project. The former is an online public forum with chat rooms and shared information for Arab men and women interested in their genetic lineage. The J1e project, accessible through the website of Family Tree DNA (at www.familytreedna.com) is more specialised. It is a forum for men whose Y chromosome belongs to the J1e haplogroup, a genetic grouping of Semitic tribes.

    J1e is the genetic signature of the Hashemites, a clan to which the Prophet Mohammed belonged. The current King of Jordan, Abdullah II, is a Hashemite descendant, and one of the better-known living descendants of the Prophet Mohammed. Just how many will test their own DNA to find a link remains to be seen, officials say. "When it comes to the Prophet, I'd rather live in doubt than receive certainty that I'm not related to him," said Sheikh Furber.
    http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...-lineage#page1

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    There is a huge chance that the Prophet Muhammad was J1. However, Arab tribes usually include other Arab families during it's formation, so they are not 100% homogeneous. The TMRCA for L859 reinforces the subclade's Arabian origins, and it fits right around the time Islam began. So I think it is the best candidate of his family's descendants (the Prophet himself never had a son that survived past infancy).

    While we may never know for sure (unless we dig up the graves of the prophet and his family, which is never happening), the odds still favor J1.

    Edit: I believe he is 100% J1. L859 is exclusive to the Hashemites, which shows that this lineage for its entirety was always too pristine and prestigious to be found elsewhere. Just like how the Kohanim J1 sub-clade is exclusive to the Jews. Every other J1 sub-clade that claims to be Hashemite is found elsewhere in Arabian tribes, and its always too young to be associated with the Prophet. To be 100% sure I'd have to look into other subclades of haplogroups that claim to be from the Prophet, but since none is ever brought up by Arab DNA project admins, I don't think such a candidate exists yet.
    Last edited by King; 09-22-2015 at 04:25 AM.

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  5. #3
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    It would not be much of a surprise if he was J1.

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    ^ Very interesting!

    The Quraysh & Bani-Hashem (FGC8712+, L859+, FGC10500+, DYS485=14) project:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...d/default.aspx

    This project intends to track down individuals, and their Y-DNA kits, who tested positive for FGC8712, L859, FGC8703, FGC10500, CTS8308, FGC8702, FGC9581, and/or L615 markers.

    It is believed that:
    * L859+ individuals are descendants of Quraysh
    * FGC8703+ individuals are descendants of Hashem
    * FGC10500+ individuals are descendants of Imam Ali (AS)

    Below is the most updated phylogenetic tree of the Quraysh (& FGC8712) Project:
    http://www.qur.co/vb/filedata/fetch?id=1398

    Hashem tribe emerged in west Arabia (Hijaz) and migrated to the south (Yemen) or to the north east (Levant and Mesopotamia). Sayeds & Sahrifs with well known lines of succession tested positive for L859 and FGC10500 markers. Here is the historical and geographical distribution of current FGC8712+, Quarshi, Hashemi, and Alawite kits:
    http://www.qur.co/vb/filedata/fetch?id=1252

    A Y-STR model of Imam Ali bin abi-Taleb (AS) was generated based on the 54 available Alawite kits:
    http://www.qur.co/vb/filedata/fetch?id=851

    FGC8712 and its downstream SNPs are defined as a branch of the greater J1 phylogenetic tree (characterized by the M267 SNP-marker):
    http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

    Prophets Ibrahim (Abraham), Ismael (Ishmael), Isacc, and Haroon (Aaron) are considered major forefathers in the J1 phylogenetic tree.

    The age of FGC8712 subclade is believed to be ~3300-3800 yBP (years before present). Individuals who tested positive for this marker (FGC8712) are welcome to join the Quraysh project.

    To browse SNPs and their positions on the Y DNA, please use the ISOGG YBrowse Tool:
    http://ybrowse.org/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?

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    A Y-STR model of Imam Ali bin abi-Taleb (AS) was generated based on the 54 available Alawite kits:
    http://www.qur.co/vb/filedata/fetch?id=851
    Then this haplotype could also be the model haplotype for Prophet Muhammad, because Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali were cousin. Am I right?
    Last edited by Caspian; 09-22-2015 at 02:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    Then this haplotype could also be the model haplotype for Prophet Muhammad, because Prophet Muhammad and Imam Ali were cousin. Am I right?
    Yes. That's it, I guess.

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    The "FGC8712, L859-" samples from Eastern Europe mentioned here are all Jewish and have their own subclade, J1-ZS2102 (TMRCA ~1000 yBP)... As to how this typically Arabian branch of J1-L858 managed to make it into the Jewish gene pool, your guess is as good as mine (remnants of Arabia's Jewish tribes blending with Ashkenazi Jews? Idumean converts to Judaism? Himyarite converts?).
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    While I don't believe the Alawites descend from Ali, if they do descend from Quraysh, it'd be a huge shock to me since their sect is not compatible with Islam. But then again it shouldnt, because the Prophet did confront his tribe and threatened them all with slaughter, since they were pagans and did not care for monotheism and wanted him killed.

    If the Alawites are true remnants of the Quraish, then they probably are the remnants of the stubborn pagan qurayshi tribesmen (the majority of quraysh were unbelievers when Islam came).
    Last edited by King; 09-23-2015 at 12:02 AM.

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    Question: The term Alawite used here, is it used for those who claim lineage from Ali, or is it used for those from the Alawite sect? Cause I'm slightly confused what Alawite is referring to here (I'm thinking of the Alawite sect but I don't think that's right).

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