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Thread: Will Y NGS testing obsolete SNP Packs/Panels/Sanger Sequencing/STR Panels and when?

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    Question Will Y NGS testing obsolete SNP Packs/Panels/Sanger Sequencing/STR Panels and when?

    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    I think that point cannot be made often enough.
    Most people aren't wiling or can't spend that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Most people aren't wiling or can't spend that much.
    Science can't wait for most people. A SNP pack is great for finding your haplogroup and that's really important. But if you want to be a leader, you have to take a test that finds your haplogroup and discovers the novel SNPs that define your unique Y-line. That's how the Y phylogenetic tree is grown and better understood. Next generation sequencing (NGS) is the only way to do that.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Science can't wait for most people. A SNP pack is great for finding your haplogroup and that's really important. But if you want to be a leader, you have to take a test that finds your haplogroup and discovers the novel SNPs that define your unique Y-line. That's how the Y phylogenetic tree is grown and better understood. Next generation sequencing (NGS) is the only way to do that.
    Yes, I already knew that. You are preaching to the choir. However, you'll need a better sales pitch than that to get a lot more people to spend that much money if they even have the money. Once the price goes down a lot and there is a sale on top of the price reduction then a lot more people will get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTC View Post
    I think that point cannot be made often enough.
    Indeed. However, if one can afford Big-Y, why the compromise? The Y-Elite 2.0 test from Full Genomes Corp. is even better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Yes, I already knew that. You are preaching to the choir. However, you'll need a better sales pitch than that to get a lot more people to spend that much money if they even have the money. Once the price goes down a lot and there is a sale on top of the price reduction then a lot more people will get it.
    I think it's wishful thinking to wait for the price of NGS testing to come down other than with an occational discount. It's more likely that the testing companies will maintain their profit margins at the current price point while improving the quality of the NGS test. Perhaps by increasing the read length and Y chromosome coverage. The SNP packs are designed for those with a lower price point for SNP testing. People who find their haplogroup with a SNP pack are doing us all a favor by helping to create better STR modals and it helps handle their problem of false matches due to STR convergence too. That's my opinion.

    As for your sale pitch statement. If you had worked for me, you would have been fired for not knowing what a proper sales presentation is. Channeling Zig Ziglar who was a saleman with good character.

    "The SNP pack test is a great test to help you find your haplogroup and is a good value. That said, it's been my experience that no one regrets buying the best and NGS testing is the best test available. Your NGS test will discover novel SNPs That will help define the Y tree and provide you with new information for years to come. Which test will you be ordering, the SNP pack test to find your haplogroup? Or go with SNP discovery and order the best with the superior NGS test?"

    The bottom line is if the price of NGS testing is too high for someone they should order a SNP Pack. Sitting around with a haplogroup prediction with no SNP testing is the worst option.
    Last edited by Joe B; 09-21-2015 at 10:17 PM.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    I think it's wishful thinking to wait for the price of NGS testing to come down other than with an occational discount. It's more likely that the testing companies will maintain their profit margins at the current price point while improving the quality of the NGS test. Perhaps by increasing the read length and Y chromosome coverage. The SNP packs are designed for those with a lower price point for SNP testing. People who find their haplogroup with a SNP pack are doing us all a favor by helping to create better STR modals and it helps handle their problem of false matches due to STR convergence too. That's my opinion.
    FTDNA has already stated that they will be lowering the price of BigY. You might want to get caught up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    As for your sale pitch statement. If you had worked for me, you would have been fired for not knowing what a proper sales presentation is. Channeling Zig Ziglar who was a saleman with good character.
    I didn't throw a sales pitch. You are the one trying to sell BigY.

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    Question Will Y NGS testing obsolete SNP Packs/Panels/Sanger Sequencing/STR Panels and when?

    Next Generation Sequencing has a unique benefit in that it can discover SNPs. It also can report some STRs. It will probably drop in price over time. If so, how soon might it obsolete Sanger Sequencing stand-alone SNP testing, SNP Packs or Panels, and even STR Panels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    FTDNA has already stated that they will be lowering the price of BigY. ....
    This came up earlier this summer on other threads and other forums. I went directly to FTDNA to question this and straight from the horse's mouth (post the interview where this came up): We have no plans to lower the price of Big Y.

    Business is business and technology is technology so I for one minute don't think that Big Y or any test won't get cheaper, but other than promotions we have no reason to think Big Y will go down in price this year.

    Instead, my opinion is that FTDNA will provide more function in Big Y results. This includes true integration of the Big Y results database with the standard Sanger Sequencing and SNP Packs and old Deep Clade test reporting on the Y DNA SNP project pages and the Haplotree and SNP myFTDNA screen. Probably, there will be a great increase in the number of "known" SNPs on the Big Y matching screens and Big Y matching will get better. I think we are aways from home on this stuff though and it could easily be argued we needed this stuff on day one anyway.

    When will the day come that Big Y pricing crosses the thresholds to make things like SNP Packs and Panels obsolete? I don't know, but I suspect it is a couple of years yet.

    Let none of this confuse my position: We need a Big Y per every known genealogical family. I used to say we need two per every surname per every STR based cluster as that would get you down to having SNPs for every surname, but really, we need one Big Y per every genealogical family.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 09-22-2015 at 03:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    When will the day come that Big Y pricing crosses the thresholds to make things like SNP Packs and Panels obsolete?
    Or, the more interesting question - when will whole genome sequencing make ALL of them obsolete? Not long, I think. FGC now offers 10X (good enough to detect most SNPs) WGS at $675, just a little more than Big Y. Lower total cost if you include FTDNA's mandatory prerequisite STR test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    I went directly to FTDNA to question this and straight from the horse's mouth (post the interview where this came up): We have no plans to lower the price of Big Y.
    Was that before or after the CEO publicly said this?
    ---
    "The current price of our Big Y test is under $600, and like everything else in technology the price will fall or the offering will become larger," said Bennett Greenspan, president of Family Tree DNA, one of the firms that offers Y chromosome sequencing services. "I think the test will become more mainstream as we begin to offer more features that surround the product later this year," he said. "That, along with a somewhat lower price, will likely make it a much more mainstream product next year."
    ---

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