Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 59

Thread: Eurogenes Uralic genes Analysis

  1. #1
    J Man
    Guest

    Eurogenes Uralic genes Analysis

    An interesting analysis recently done by David. It even shows my own minor Uralic ancestry from my Finnish side. I am the black dot in the second graph below.


    http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2015/09/uralic-genes.html

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9o...Rmc/view?pli=1
    Last edited by J Man; 09-24-2015 at 03:11 AM.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to J Man For This Useful Post:

     Helgenes50 (09-23-2015),  hintsu (09-23-2015),  MatAust21 (09-23-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,761
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    A drawback of this kind of analysis is that, since Nganasans are mainly ENA, any kind of sample with extra ENA will pull up from the cline, Uralic or not (like Crimean Tatars etc) which makes it more of an ENA meter. If Dai or Japanese were used instead the result would look similar, but neither of them is Uralic. A haplotype-based analysis like Busby et al is required to differentiate between various "siberian" affinities. Or perhaps TreeMix.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shaikorth For This Useful Post:

     Coldmountains (09-23-2015),  Volat (09-23-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,104
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    N - Z16980

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    A drawback of this kind of analysis is that, since Nganasans are mainly ENA, any kind of sample with extra ENA will pull up from the cline, Uralic or not (like Crimean Tatars etc) which makes it more of an ENA meter. If Dai or Japanese were used instead the result would look similar, but neither of them is Uralic. A haplotype-based analysis like Busby et al is required to differentiate between various "siberian" affinities. Or perhaps TreeMix.
    But then, if ENA meter works to differ Uralic folk from other Euros, then ENA meter does its work?
    About Dai/Japanese - have you tried it out, or it is your educated guess?

  6. #4
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    A drawback of this kind of analysis is that, since Nganasans are mainly ENA, any kind of sample with extra ENA will pull up from the cline, Uralic or not (like Crimean Tatars etc) which makes it more of an ENA meter. If Dai or Japanese were used instead the result would look similar, but neither of them is Uralic. A haplotype-based analysis like Busby et al is required to differentiate between various "siberian" affinities. Or perhaps TreeMix.
    It's hard to say how adding West Eurasian Turkic groups with no Uralic admixture would affect the analysis, because it also tests affinity to BedouinB. So most might not be over the red line, and those that did make it over wouldn't cluster anywhere near Uralics in the X axis.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,761
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    But then, if ENA meter works to differ Uralic folk from other Euros, then ENA meter does its work?
    About Dai/Japanese - have you tried it out, or it is your educated guess?
    That wouldn't be an Uralic meter, just an ENA meter, and it would only differentiate those with ENA, Uralic or not. Japanese or Dai have nothing to do with Uralics, but if they replaced Nganasans the Uralic groups with ENA would stand out. With Karitiana etc. it would also looks broadly similar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    It's hard to say how adding West Eurasian Turkic groups with no Uralic admixture would affect the analysis, because it also tests affinity to BedouinB. So most might not be over the red line, and those that did make it over wouldn't cluster anywhere near Uralics in the X axis.
    Their ENA would make them stand out from their West Eurasian neighbours without ENA but a similar amount of BedouinB by a degree comparable to their ENA. Tatars wouldn't be higher than Chuvash not just because of their higher Near Eastern, but also because they have less ENA. Nganasans are almost fully Paleosiberians who experienced a language shift, they will pull anything with ENA up the X-axis (like Karitiana but to a higher degree).

  9. #6
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    Their ENA would make them stand out from their West Eurasian neighbours without ENA but a similar amount of BedouinB by a degree comparable to their ENA.
    BedouinB affinity would differentiate more southern Turkics like Crimean Tatars from Uralics. Other Tatars from further north do have Uralic admixture, so they would likely overlap with Uralics, which would make sense.

    Point is, this test isn't just about ENA affinity.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,761
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    BedouinB affinity would differentiate more southern Turkics like Crimean Tatars from Uralics. Other Tatars from further north do have Uralic admixture, so they would likely overlap with Uralics, which would make sense.

    Point is, this test isn't just about ENA affinity.
    They have more Near Eastern and/or less ENA, that's the reason they'd not go as high on X-axis. But that is still a ENA/Near Eastern polarity, independent of language groups. Japanese or Dai, or other such non-Uralic related ENA group, would easily create the same sort of result as Nganasans do. To specifically differentiate between "Siberian" ENA related to Uralic, Turkic and possibly predating movements those haplotype analyses are needed.

  12. #8
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    Japanese or Dai, or other such non-Uralic related ENA group, would easily create the same sort of result as Nganasans do.
    I have some doubts about that. I'll check later.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,761
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-S336
    mtDNA (M)
    K1c1

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    I have some doubts about that. I'll check later.
    Then there's also the matter of how something like a Dane with one full Greenland Eskimo great-grandparent would place on the analysis. Again this example has no Uralic ancestors involved but easily enough ENA to easily put it over the red line but not enough Near Eastern to keep him really below Mordovians etc. in this kind of test.

  15. #10
    Suspended Account
    Posts
    4,850
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    If Dai or Japanese were used instead the result would look similar, but neither of them is Uralic.
    Dai simply doesn't work, while Japanese barely work.

    Dai vs Yamnaya

    Japanese vs Yamnaya

    So like I say, this isn't just about inflated ENA affinity.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Uralic
    By JoeyP37 in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-14-2021, 03:15 AM
  2. A. Kloekhorst and the Indo-Uralic thesis
    By anglesqueville in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-15-2019, 04:40 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-29-2019, 06:49 PM
  4. Davidski / Eurogenes DNA analysis?
    By sktibo in forum Inquiries Corner
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-16-2016, 04:04 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-25-2013, 09:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •