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Thread: Almost 100 aDNA samples of R1b and R1a haplogroups older than 500 AD

  1. #1
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    Almost 100 aDNA samples of R1b and R1a haplogroups older than 500 AD

    Continued from: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...gical-cultures

    This time I included also R1b samples, but only samples older - or potentially older - than year 500 AD.

    List of all samples included (if I missed something please tell me and I will add it to the map):

    Almost 100 R1 samples older than 500 AD.jpg



    Samples of R1b haplogroup:



    Samples of R1a haplogroup:



    All samples combined:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-24-2015 at 06:32 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Why 500 AD? That's early medieval, not ancient.

    And your entry for ATP3 is bogus, since that is not a good test result. You seem to want to make R1b as Western as possible in order to marginalize the thus far overwhelming indications that it is connected to the advent of the Indo-Europeans and contain the damage to Z2103.
    Last edited by rms2; 09-24-2015 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2
    Why 500 AD? That's early medieval, not ancient.
    I wanted to include Alanian sample A80305 which is dated 400-600 AD.

    That is the turns of Ancient times and of the early medieval Dark Ages.

    If I chose a date after 500 AD, I would need to add 21 Basque samples:

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/...n_tab_contents

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/medievaldna.shtml

    The number of R1b samples would increase to 58, including 21 Basques.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-24-2015 at 11:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2
    And your entry for ATP3 is bogus, since that is not a good test result.
    My entries include also pre-M269 R1b (including Iberian V88).

    So even if ATP3 wasn't M269, I think I can keep him - for now.

    You seem to want to make R1b as Western as possible
    I have no such agenda, I just put samples on the map, that's it.

    I included Canarian samples as they could be older than 500 AD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    I wanted to include Alanian sample A80305 which is dated 400-600 AD.

    That is the turns of Ancient times and of the early medieval Dark Ages.

    If I chose a date after 500 AD, I would need to add 21 Basque samples:

    http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/...n_tab_contents

    http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/medievaldna.shtml

    The number of R1b samples would increase to 58, including 21 Basques.
    Ah, the Basques, the Basques. Everyone with an axe to grind against R1b being connected to the Indo-Europeans sooner or later starts yammering about the Basques.

    If you chose a date, say, around 1980, you could have got a lot more of them.

    Your inclusion of ATP3, which is not a good result, certainly makes your map appear to be agenda driven.

    Why don't you revise your map, make the cutoff 1000 BC, and instead of R1b-M343 and dubious results, go with R1b-L23 and only legitimate test results?

    What's your y-haplogroup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2
    What's your y-haplogroup?
    I don't know, I'm currently waiting for my Y-DNA test result from FTDNA - I should get the result in November.

    Why are you asking?

    Why don't you revise your map, make the cutoff 1000 BC, and instead of R1b-M343 and dubious results, go with R1b-L23 and only legitimate test results?
    Are samples such as RISE 566, 564, 563, 560 and 524 older than 1000 BC ??? I couldn't find the dates for them.

    Anyway - making the cutoff 1000 BC and removing a few dubious results would not make any essential difference.

    Check the table - only few samples are younger than 1000 BC (including MNX3 - R1a from North-Eastern Mongolia).
    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-24-2015 at 11:42 AM.

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    Why don't you revise your map, make the cutoff 1000 BC
    OK - here is your cutoff 1000 BC (as well as dubious ATP3 removed and Neolithic R1b-V88 removed):

    Last edited by Tomenable; 09-24-2015 at 11:52 AM.

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    They're still there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    They're still there.
    After removing those samples, we are left only with Bell Beaker samples from mixed CW-BB zone:



    Extent of Corded Ware culture:



    Extent of Bell Beaker culture:

    http://what-when-how.com/ancient-eur...ncient-europe/


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    In Portalon we not have R1b

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