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Thread: Basal J2a1*

  1. #1
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    Basal J2a1*

    As it now stands, I am one of the only two Basal MtDNA J2a1*s so far known from Testing, and my Haplotype is the oldest of the two. I am Undifferentiated J2a1*, with a few Private Mutations. My Maternal Line comes from Tuscany, with all known and Paper Trail Genealogy rooting it there. The other Sample is an Irish one, with a Haplotype apearing to be several Thousands of Years Younger than mine. Since J2a1* is so old, believed to have arose in Europe about 16,500 YBP, there is not a whole lot of information out about it. What is known, is that, somewhere further down the line, J2a1a split off from it, about 11,000 YPB, and became a dominant Lineage in Germanic regions. Therefore, what possible connections could there be between Tuscany and Ireland, or Italy and Ireland for that matter, that could maybe explain this?
    Paternal Haplogroup: I2a1c (Ancestor: Albert I Lee (Family surname was "Brooks" prior to the British-Boer War II) / Born: 1900-Middlesbrough Yorkshire, England)

    Maternal Haplogroup: J2a1 (Ancestor: Maria B. Cavallini / Born: 1893-Livorno, Tuscany, Italy)

    Places Of Ancestry: Yorkshire, England/ Durham, England/ Lancashire, England/ Abruzzo, Italy/ Campania, Italy/ Tuscany, Italy

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     sgdavies@hotmail.com (07-12-2017)

  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barellalee View Post
    As it now stands, I am one of the only two Basal MtDNA J2a1*s so far known from Testing, and my Haplotype is the oldest of the two. I am Undifferentiated J2a1*, with a few Private Mutations. My Maternal Line comes from Tuscany, with all known and Paper Trail Genealogy rooting it there. The other Sample is an Irish one, with a Haplotype apearing to be several Thousands of Years Younger than mine. Since J2a1* is so old, believed to have arose in Europe about 16,500 YBP, there is not a whole lot of information out about it. What is known, is that, somewhere further down the line, J2a1a split off from it, about 11,000 YPB, and became a dominant Lineage in Germanic regions. Therefore, what possible connections could there be between Tuscany and Ireland, or Italy and Ireland for that matter, that could maybe explain this?
    Are both kits on GEDmatch, and if so can you share the kit numbers?

    Thanks,

    Jack

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by C J Wyatt III View Post
    Are both kits on GEDmatch, and if so can you share the kit numbers?

    Thanks,

    Jack
    Thanks. I don't know who the Irish Sample is, or if they have a Kit. I only found out about it, because Ian Logan at GENbank studied my Data, and informed me that the only other one known was a younger Irish Haplotype, found in 2012. Myself and the Irish Sample are there as the only two J2a1*s on GENbanks' List of J2a1 Subclade Sequences. My GEDmatch, which I'd still like your view on, is M213249. I am half Northern English, a quarter Tuscan, and a quarter South Italian.

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     sgdavies@hotmail.com (11-16-2017)

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barellalee View Post
    Thanks. I don't know who the Irish Sample is, or if they have a Kit. I only found out about it, because Ian Logan at GENbank studied my Data, and informed me that the only other one known was a younger Irish Haplotype, found in 2012. Myself and the Irish Sample are there as the only two J2a1*s on GENbanks' List of J2a1 Subclade Sequences. My GEDmatch, which I'd still like your view on, is M213249. I am half Northern English, a quarter Tuscan, and a quarter South Italian.
    Barellalee, thank you.

    I'll take a look.

    Jack

  7. #5
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    In correspondence to the Results you'll be looking at at GEDmatch, 23andMe has me down as 23% Italian, 13% French German, 11% British Irish, 2% Iberian, and the rest is Broadly Northern European, Broadly Southern European, and European. My Y-DNA, through my Northern English side, is I2a1c, which is about 3,000 Years Old, believed to be from the Germany/Baltic /North Sea sphere. The 2% Iberian is currently unexplainable, but may simply be either some misinterpretation of a West Med component in my Italian side, or maybe perhaps a misinterpretation of some old Pre-Roman Era component on my British side. The overlap I get between French German and British Irish appears to be due to the high similarity between the DNA of all of these four groups, and the current inability to tell the difference. As you'll notice, on GEDmatch, I often come out as half Greek. As I have no Balkan DNA, no Greece in Countries Of Ancestry, and no Greek DNA Matches on either 23andMe or GEDmatch, this appears to be explainable by my Tuscan, Abruzzese, Campanian mix. The Abruzzese often Plot South of Greek Mainlanders, and with the Aegean, probably due to Med affinities going back before the Metal Ages, and then my Campanian further contributes to the Southward Cline. When this combined with Tuscan, I probably appear half Greek to GEDmatch, based on Protohistoric components, not real ancestry.

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barellalee View Post
    Thanks. I don't know who the Irish Sample is, or if they have a Kit. I only found out about it, because Ian Logan at GENbank studied my Data, and informed me that the only other one known was a younger Irish Haplotype, found in 2012. Myself and the Irish Sample are there as the only two J2a1*s on GENbanks' List of J2a1 Subclade Sequences. My GEDmatch, which I'd still like your view on, is M213249. I am half Northern English, a quarter Tuscan, and a quarter South Italian.
    Hi, did you get to the bottom of where your J2a1* originated?
    Gedmatch
    Kit Num: M129412, QA3736362
    23andme
    Hidden Content
    LivingDNA
    Hidden Content

  9. #7
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    Italy England North of England United States of America
    hi there. no, but the current main hypothesis is that it arouse in Ice Age Refugium Italy, which would explain the two younger sublclades found in central Europe and Ireland
    Paternal Haplogroup: I2a1c (Ancestor: Albert I Lee (Family surname was "Brooks" prior to the British-Boer War II) / Born: 1900-Middlesbrough Yorkshire, England)

    Maternal Haplogroup: J2a1 (Ancestor: Maria B. Cavallini / Born: 1893-Livorno, Tuscany, Italy)

    Places Of Ancestry: Yorkshire, England/ Durham, England/ Lancashire, England/ Abruzzo, Italy/ Campania, Italy/ Tuscany, Italy

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