Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30

Thread: Radio programme: How Celtic Are We?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    550
    Sex
    Location
    England
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10a

    United States of America England

    Radio programme: How Celtic Are We?

    For those who can access it on BBC iPlayer, an excellent survey of Celtic-ness was broadcast last night on Radio 3.

    Includes quotes from the current luminaries in this field: Barry Cunliffe, John Koch, Peter Donnelly of the People of the British Isles genetic project, Julia Farley, curator of the new Celtic exhibition at the British Museum, etc.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06fld1w

  2. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to J1 DYS388=13 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (10-09-2015),  avalon (10-05-2015),  Caratacus (11-08-2015),  Cinnamon orange (10-10-2015),  DMXX (10-05-2015),  dp (10-05-2015),  Earl Davis (10-05-2015),  Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  Jean M (10-05-2015),  Jessie (10-09-2015),  rms2 (10-06-2015)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Netherlands

    Netherlands Belgium Czech Republic
    Blood and DNA is one thing..An important factor to identity is language. Therefore, Celtic identity must imho include Celtic languages and Celts capable of speaking it.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Schanulleke For This Useful Post:

     Dubhthach (10-09-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,775
    Sex
    Location
    Dún Laoire, Bláth Cliath, Éire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    Éireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Schanulleke View Post
    Blood and DNA is one thing..An important factor to identity is language. Therefore, Celtic identity must imho include Celtic languages and Celts capable of speaking it.
    Sounds like the program was aimed at English audience (not surprising it's BBC), here in Ireland of course where majority of population spoke a Celtic language until 1800 until undergoing rapid language shift it's quite a different matter.
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

  6. #4
    Banned
    Posts
    13,888
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z253>BY93500
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Schanulleke View Post
    Blood and DNA is one thing..An important factor to identity is language. Therefore, Celtic identity must imho include Celtic languages and Celts capable of speaking it.
    Well, I don't agree with that. A Hottentot could be taught to speak Welsh or Gaelic. That wouldn't make him a Celt.

    I identify as a Celt based on my heritage, and that includes my dna test results, especially my y-dna test results.

  7. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (10-09-2015),  Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  Tomenable (08-26-2016)

  8. #5
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,337
    Sex
    Location
    Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, Canada
    Ethnicity
    Irish Canadian
    Nationality
    Canada
    Y-DNA (P)
    L513->Z23516>BY11142
    mtDNA (M)
    H1bd

    Canada Ireland Scotland England Ireland County Tipperary Canada Old Newfoundland
    I would strongly add "a groups commonly held customs, values and beliefs" as part of my cultural or ethnic identity.
    I have two very obvious examples in my family tree, one from the Irish, Irish/Scots protestants line and the other of the Newfoundland fishermen line, who were originally Devonshire fishermen.

    as the years have gone by, not only I have been able to identify certain habits and ways of me and my family from one line or the other that is different from most others around me, but I have routinely had someone notice something I did that obviously seemed notably different from those around me
    ...often it was a phrase or idiom that was super common in my and my cousins house, but no one else had heard before, or as a small trivial example, I discovered in a workplace lunch table discussion last week, I was the only monarchist, all the others were mildly to strongly anti monarchy-I just assumed most would be like me...all of that comes from the roots I mentioned above

    I might add, in both cases, the real 'transmitters' of these values, beliefs and customs were the women of the family.
    In every branch, and certainly of these 2 in particular, the women outlived the men by a long shot, and as another example, it was the paternal grandmother that taught the Irish prot. ways, and my mom and Aunt that taught the Newfie ways...even though none of those women were born in 'the old country', it was what they learned and lived and passed down

    My DNA does support all the above, which is both fun and interesting, but in my mind, it is secondary in a way to the human dimension.

    Nothing is more powerful in my life than a handful or beliefs or rules my Gma Whalen taught me..."God hates a coward", 'always back family in a fight', 'never forget a friend or enemy', 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and so forth

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeWhalen; 10-09-2015 at 04:23 PM.
    Furthest Y line=Patrick Whealen 1816-1874, b.Tipperary Co. Ire. d. Kincardine Ont.

    Y-DNA-RL21-L513-Z23516-BY11142('lost Irish 'C' boys?')

    FTDNA=P312+ P25+ M343+ M269+ M207+ M173+ L513+ U198- U152- U106- SRY2627- P66- P107- M73- M65- M37- M222- M18- M160- M153- M126- L705- L577- L193- L159.2- L1333-
    Big-Y=Z23516+
    23&me=L21+
    E.A.= S21-, S26-, S28-, S29-, S68-
    Geno 2 (N.G.P.) H1bd+

    Whalen/Phelan DNA Surname Project
    Hidden Content

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeWhalen For This Useful Post:

     Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  rms2 (10-09-2015)

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,775
    Sex
    Location
    Dún Laoire, Bláth Cliath, Éire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    Éireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Well, I don't agree with that. A Hottentot could be taught to speak Welsh or Gaelic. That wouldn't make him a Celt.

    I identify as a Celt based on my heritage, and that includes my dna test results, especially my y-dna test results.
    Don't forget though that you did have ancestors in relatively recent past who spoke Welsh, your average Hottentot wouldn't. In my own case I know that my great-great-grandfather who was born in the late 1820's was marked down on 1901 census as been able to speak both Irish and English, in comparison his son (my great-grandfather) could only speak English (he was born in 1860's). This points to my G.G.Grandfather been a native Irish speaker who picked it up in the home and that intergenerational transmission of language was broken when his son was born in 1860's. (Which basically follows most research into massive language shift Ireland underwent in 19th century)

    I haven't listen to the show, but often shows such as this aimed specifically at English audience seem to forget that within UK to this day there are at least three Celtic languages spoken (Irish -- northern Ireland, Welsh -- Wales, Gaidhlig -- Scotland), along with revival efforts on two others (though Isle of Man is not in UK, Cornish been other). As a result they often seem to ignore actual Celtic linguistic communities and assume that "Celts were these distant Iron age people, or heck they spoke "Iron age" "
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Dubhthach For This Useful Post:

     Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  jdean (10-09-2015),  rms2 (10-09-2015)

  12. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,430
    Sex
    Location
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ethnicity
    Pictland/Deira
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-M222-FGC5864
    mtDNA (M)
    H5r*

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    Don't forget though that you did have ancestors in relatively recent past who spoke Welsh, your average Hottentot wouldn't. In my own case I know that my great-great-grandfather who was born in the late 1820's was marked down on 1901 census as been able to speak both Irish and English, in comparison his son (my great-grandfather) could only speak English (he was born in 1860's). This points to my G.G.Grandfather been a native Irish speaker who picked it up in the home and that intergenerational transmission of language was broken when his son was born in 1860's. (Which basically follows most research into massive language shift Ireland underwent in 19th century)




    I haven't listen to the show, but often shows such as this aimed specifically at English audience seem to forget that within UK to this day there are at least three Celtic languages spoken (Irish -- northern Ireland, Welsh -- Wales, Gaidhlig -- Scotland), along with revival efforts on two others (though Isle of Man is not in UK, Cornish been other). As a result they often seem to ignore actual Celtic linguistic communities and assume that "Celts were these distant Iron age people, or heck they spoke "Iron age" "
    Give it a listen. Its presented by Prof. Dai Smith who I see has been lambasted on one website for not having learnt to speak Welsh, but it seems to be largely aimed at Welsh rugby fans ;-)

    It has brief appearances from Barry Cunliffe and Peter Donnelly from the POBI project.

    I grew up next door to a Welsh speaking family from Anglesey. I don't think Dai could tell them anything about being Welsh or Celtic for that matter.
    Last edited by MacUalraig; 10-09-2015 at 05:20 PM.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019, Chronomics Jan 2020, Sano Genetics Feb 2020, Nebula Genomics June 2020)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
    Hidden Content
    FBIMatch: A------ (autosomal DNA) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MacUalraig For This Useful Post:

     J1 DYS388=13 (10-09-2015),  rms2 (10-09-2015)

  14. #8
    Banned
    Posts
    13,888
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z253>BY93500
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    I listened to the program and enjoyed it except for the kind of condescending tone which I find to be all too common in such shows, especially where the Celts are concerned. Maybe you know what I mean: the sort of we find all this Celtic rot all too amusing, but no one should take it too seriously attitude, the we're above the silly sentiments of the unwashed masses sort of thing.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  MikeWhalen (10-09-2015)

  16. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    550
    Sex
    Location
    England
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10a

    United States of America England
    Rugby World Cup in progress over here. Technically England is the host but many matches here in Cardiff. It is clearly, in part, Celtic tribal warfare, but under control --- rugby fans are cheery.

    It's the football (soccer) fans who would like to kill you on the street here.

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to J1 DYS388=13 For This Useful Post:

     Gray Fox (10-09-2015),  MikeWhalen (10-09-2015),  rivergirl (10-10-2015),  rms2 (10-09-2015)

  18. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    44
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    Rugby World Cup in progress over here. Technically England is the host but many matches here in Cardiff. It is clearly, in part, Celtic tribal warfare, but under control --- rugby fans are cheery.

    It's the football (soccer) fans who would like to kill you on the street here.
    If such a post were to be published in the UK newspapers there would be an outcry.The class bias implicit in the post is unacceptable to most who actually live here.Why say thank you for such nasty class based bias?

    The Rugby and Football Teams of Wales are to be congratulated on their current success and we all celebrate that.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. September 1939 in radio
    By Tomenable in forum History (Modern)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-06-2018, 08:18 PM
  2. TV DNA Programme
    By castle3 in forum General
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 11-29-2015, 03:24 PM
  3. Replies: 120
    Last Post: 03-16-2015, 04:57 AM
  4. What Makes us Human? (BBC programme)
    By Jean M in forum Human Evolution
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-05-2013, 11:10 AM
  5. Radio Free Cherokee: Endangered Languages Take to the Airwaves
    By History-of-Things in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-19-2012, 05:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •