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Thread: 4500-year-old Ethiopian - Y-DNA E1b1, mtDNA L3, and considerable Eurasian admixture

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Glad to see we're finally getting reliable ancient data from Africa, this could have important implications from a linguistic standpoint... More is needed though.
    We have an expression in Irish:
    tús maith leath na hOibre
    "A good start is half the work"

    Now that we have methodology and actual result from Africa I imagine that we'll start seeing more and more results from region. It be great to get some results from Middle East, it might prove some slant on "Basal Eurasian" grouping that is identified as component of EEF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lank View Post
    Note how admixture levels only decrease in some Ethiopian populations (Wolayta, Afar, Somali, Oromo, Tigray, Amhara, Jews) using Mota as a reference instead of Yoruba. In all other African populations, Eurasian admixture levels rise using Mota.
    What's interesting about this is that we don't experience an increase alongside the South Sudanese samples & Anuaks (whom we tend to share the "East African / Nilo-Saharan" component with in admixture runs) and they experience practically as much of a hike as Yorubas do meaning this can't be blamed entirely on their Niger-Congo-related admixture. Does this imply that their non-Niger-Congo-related ancestors experienced Eurasian gene flow after our African ancestors split from them?

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    I don't think we could make an argument that Y-DNA originated in West Eurasia based on this alone. Perhaps if you were to some specific downstream subclade of E1b1b, but E itself? I don't think so, this back migration occurred around 4,500 years ago. Haplogroup E itself is much older. It's similar to the recent discovery of J1 in Samartians, it's possible that it could have originated in the region where the Samartians lived (In fact, I don't think we've even identified the subclades they belong to). But until we have ancient DNA evidence from other parts of the world namely the Middle East, it's still a very speculative hypothesis to claim that J1 arose in the Caucasus or that E arose outside of Africa.

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    Yet the match was closer to Stuttgart/Sardinians than it was modern Bedouins + Palestinians, which implies those latter populations have also received genetic input from somewhere else as well.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Stuttgart and the Sardinians without WHG admixture and Bedouins without recent Sub-Saharan African admixture would cluster together. This could also be a function of the antiquity of the genome. Similar to how Ust-Ishim doesn't cluster very closely with any modern West Eurasians.

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    One other thing I'd note is how the West Eurasian scores in Horn Africans like Somalis, Habeshas, Agaws (Afar & Ethiopian Jews) & Oromos goes up when the Druze are used but then go down when the LBK are used. I honestly dismissed this and mostly still do because the Druze are partially "African" but from what I've seen they're only like ~3% or so "African" (and perhaps some of this ancestry even carries Eurasian ancestry with it?) so would that really shift things by much?

     

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    I think we should use Mota as a proxy for Basal Eurasian, or at the very least run him through an ADMIXTURE calculator along with other ancient genomes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    One other thing I'd note is how the West Eurasian scores in Horn Africans like Somalis, Habeshas, Agaws (Afar & Ethiopian Jews) & Oromos goes up when the Druze are used but then go down when the LBK are used. I honestly dismissed this and mostly still do because the Druze are partially "African" but from what I've seen they're only like ~3% or so "African" (and perhaps some of this ancestry even carries Eurasian ancestry with it?) so would that really shift things by much?
    I'm not surprised it goes up in Horners, I mean, Horners likely inherited some ancestry during the Jewish/Christian/Muslim era migration from populations similar to Druze. What I am surprised about though, is how the Eurasian estimates for EVERY OTHER African population goes up by roughly the same amount, ~12%. Maybe it's playing the other way around, maybe the West Eurasian components in Druze are actually harboring some African.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrousMandaru View Post
    Stuttgart and the Sardinians without WHG admixture and Bedouins without recent Sub-Saharan African admixture would cluster together. This could also be a function of the antiquity of the genome. Similar to how Ust-Ishim doesn't cluster very closely with any modern West Eurasians.
    The paper that's coming out next week stated that Stuttgart could be plotted as 90% Neolithic Anatolian and 10% WHG. In other words, it sounds like only an additional 10% Eurasian Hunter Gatherer was picked up by the farmers who moved into Europe initially. It doesn't sound like the earliest European farmers mixed all that much initially, contrary to what was previously thought. It could be that Bedouin and Palestinians are shifted by a "Teal" component that is ubiquitous in the Middle East today.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    The paper that's coming out next week stated that Stuttgart could be plotted as 90% Neolithic Anatolian and 10% WHG. In other words, it sounds like only an additional 10% Eurasian Hunter Gatherer was picked up by the farmers who moved into Europe initially. It doesn't sound like the earliest European farmers mixed all that much initially, contrary to what was previously thought. It could be that Bedouin and Palestinians are shifted by a "Teal" component that is ubiquitous in the Middle East today.
    The teal component itself is predominantly Near Eastern with some ANE. The Neolithic Anatolian farmers are if I recall correctly mixtures of UHG (Middle Eastern hunters) and Basal Eurasian. I believe Sardinians and Stuttgart might be mixed more with this Middle Eastern variety of WHG, rather than European WHG.

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