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Thread: 4500-year-old Ethiopian - Y-DNA E1b1, mtDNA L3, and considerable Eurasian admixture

  1. #31
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    Isn't there a group in Ethiopia called the Falash that are Jewish (insert Dan Brown Ark of the Covenant stories here), could this compenent and this group have any link?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I'm not surprised it goes up in Horners, I mean, Horners likely inherited some ancestry during the Jewish/Christian/Muslim era migration from populations similar to Druze.
    There's really no evidence of such gene flow into these groups (at least in meaningful amounts that would ever show up in such analyses). The latest signs of West Eurasian gene flow would be in Habeshas from around 2,800 to 3,000 years ago when their ancestors shifted from Central-Cushitic to South-Semitic and what remains of that ancestry in modern Habeshas whilst seemingly non-negligible is not substantial since most of their ancestry clearly seems to be shared with their Cushitic speaking neighbors whether that's the Xamir ("Afar" samples) or Somalis. And this admixture in Habeshas that's not seemingly present in groups like Somalis doesn't adequately explain the hike in all the present Horn African groups when the Druze are used.

    What I am surprised about though, is how the Eurasian estimates for EVERY OTHER African population goes up by roughly the same amount, ~12%. Maybe it's playing the other way around, maybe the West Eurasian components in Druze are actually harboring some African.
    The West Eurasian components in the LBK too? Cos the increase generally sticks around even when they're used. But yes, I find it quite weird how even groups like Mbutis and such are turning up with a "Eurasian" element. This just generally seems... Weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by rossa View Post
    Isn't there a group in Ethiopia called the Falash that are Jewish (insert Dan Brown Ark of the Covenant stories here), could this compenent and this group have any link?
    That population is present in this study. They're the "Ethiopian Jews". "Falasha" or "Felasha" is just a rather derogatory term coined by the Abyssinian Emperor Yeshaq I (random side note; a hymn made on his orders marks the first documented use of the word "Somali" too; the hymn was made to celebrate him kicking this hombre's ass) during the medieval period to describe Ethiopian Jews / the Beta Israel who are really just Ethio-Semitized Agaws. I've gone into them at my blog in the past.
    Last edited by Awale; 10-09-2015 at 07:33 PM.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    The West Eurasian components in the LBK too? Cos the increase generally sticks around even when they're used. But yes, I find it quite weird how even groups like Mbutis and such are turning up with a "Eurasian" element. This just generally seems... Weird.
    The results are very weird, I agree. Not the fact that there is admixture necessarily, but the fact that it is pretty homogenous across the board (from 6% in the Mbuti to 9% among the Luhya) among groups (West Africans, Bantus, South Sudanese, Khoe-San) with disparate population histories. For example, the Xun (who again generally lack Bantu or Cushitic admixture) possess just as much purport Eurasian admixture (7.6%) as the Yoruba (7.0-7.4%) according to these stats. Check out the blog post by Maju I linked on Forumbiodiversity, I think he explains my sentiment perfectly. The odd effect it has on Horners is also kind of weird.

    Honestly, these authors might have captured evidence of "Basal Eurasians" without realizing it. Treemix consistently captures an admixture edge close to the Dinka and Hadza (but not really) to the root of groups like LBK.
    Last edited by gihanga.rwanda; 10-09-2015 at 08:22 PM.

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  6. #34
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    If anything, we can expect many more "weird" results of the sort in the near future. As usual, this goes on to prove that contemporary populations are unreliable proxies when addressing past demographic events.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    If anything, we can expect many more "weird" results of the sort in the near future. As usual, this goes on to prove that contemporary populations are unreliable proxies when addressing past demographic events.
    Idk I don't think the author's captured the full picture. This paper reminds me of that one paper that argued for widespread Siberian/Native American admixture in Europe; months before we were introduced to ANE.

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    Something is odd here. Making inferences about other Africans, because of one African from not that long ago, is a little extreme. I'm pretty sure Africans had Eurasian, or what people call Basal Europeans and West Asians, prior to this. If this person only contained supposed Basal Eurasian, without the 50% WHG/UHG input, then they would appear further from Eurasians. This just reflects a pre-farming, WHG/UHG containing element into Africa, and just one part of Africa. The PCA does have this individual shifted into an odd spot, if it is supposed to be a pre-admixture African. It looks closer to Eurasians, in general. Very odd, indeed.
    Last edited by Chad Rohlfsen; 10-10-2015 at 12:03 AM.

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gihanga.rwanda View Post
    Idk I don't think the author's captured the full picture. This paper reminds me of that one paper that argued for widespread Siberian/Native American admixture in Europe; months before we were introduced to ANE.
    Which "ghost" turned out to be correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Which "ghost" turned out to be correct.
    Well not really, instead of one directional ENA gene flow into Europe they actually found evidence of an ancient, previously undetected population that contributed to both Europeans and Siberians/NAs, among others; on top of that, this population although distinct from WEHG (Western Eurasian Hunter Gatherers) was closer to them than to ENA populations.

    Btw people, the purport Neanderthal signal in the Yoruba is apparently inflated; it's supposed to be at .21% but the paper reports it at .7%. So unless their "Eurasian" component is a quarter Neanderthal, the authors have some explaining to do...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gihanga.rwanda View Post
    Well not really, instead of one directional ENA gene flow into Europe they actually found evidence of an ancient, previously undetected population that contributed to both Europeans and Siberians/NAs, among others; on top of that, this population although distinct from WEHG (Western Eurasian Hunter Gatherers) was closer to them than to ENA populations.
    From the original paper: "We do not of course think that there has been substantial gene flow back into Europe from Amazonia. The only plausible explanation we can see for our signal of admixture into the French is that an ancient northern Eurasian population contributed genetic material both to the ancestral population of the Americas, and also to the ancestral population of northern Europe."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    The PCA does have this individual shifted into an odd spot, if it is supposed to be a pre-admixture African. It looks closer to Eurasians, in general. Very odd, indeed.
    Not really, Ust-Ishim, WHG and ANE all cluster in different places on a PCA yet they are considered unadmixed and the PCA just tries to place them within modern eurasian variation.

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