Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Horse breeds in ancient steppe people

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty

    Horse breeds in ancient steppe people

    Browsing the newly published paper on the ancient Volga samples I was curious why they dont sequence the horse genomes in order to get some trails on which steppe people used which breeds and so. I know its less relevant than human genomes, but it could lead to migration routes. Nowadays some nomad populations still prefer specific breeds. Is there data available on this subject?

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Afshar For This Useful Post:

     David Mc (10-17-2015),  Mamluk (10-20-2015),  parasar (10-19-2015),  Rethel (10-16-2015),  rms2 (10-15-2015),  Táltos (10-15-2015)

  3. #2
    Banned
    Posts
    13,888
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z253>BY93500
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    I would like to know what sorts of mounts the Beaker Folk were using. Were they riding horses traceable to Iberia or to the steppe?

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     David Mc (10-17-2015)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    597
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF49*
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a4a1

    Northern Ireland England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    I would like to know what sorts of mounts the Beaker Folk were using. Were they riding horses traceable to Iberia or to the steppe?
    This doesn't answer your question directly and it's from 2012, but here's an interesting article tracing the origins of all modern horses to the steppe:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...an-plains.html

    Given that the initial herd began on the steppe ca. 4000 AD, I would guess that the ancestors of BB rode in on steppe ponies/horses.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to David Mc For This Useful Post:

     jdean (10-17-2015),  rms2 (10-17-2015),  Táltos (10-18-2015)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,137
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Nationality
    Welsh
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF49
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2e

    European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by David Mc View Post
    This doesn't answer your question directly and it's from 2012, but here's an interesting article tracing the origins of all modern horses to the steppe:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...an-plains.html

    Given that the initial herd began on the steppe ca. 4000 AD, I would guess that the ancestors of BB rode in on steppe ponies/horses.
    Presumably this paper

    http://www.pnas.org/content/109/21/8202.full

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jdean For This Useful Post:

     David Mc (10-17-2015),  rms2 (10-17-2015),  Táltos (10-18-2015)

  9. #5
    Banned
    Posts
    13,888
    Sex
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-Z253>BY93500
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    So, if it is the case that horses capable of being ridden are descended from horses that were first domesticated on the steppe c. 4000 BC, and, as I understand it, Iberian horses of the same period were actually pretty small ponies, that is one more piece of evidence for a steppe pastoralist origin for Beaker, given that we are pretty sure they were riding horses by no later than c. 2500 BC.

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,137
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Nationality
    Welsh
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF49
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2e

    European Union
    Don't know how reliable this is but here's a paper suggesting horses could have first been domesticated 2000 yrs earlier and a little further east.

    http://briai.ku.lt/downloads/AB/11/1...zhanazarov.pdf

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jdean For This Useful Post:

     David Mc (10-17-2015),  rms2 (10-17-2015),  Táltos (10-18-2015)

  12. #7
    Banned
    Posts
    4,169
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Nationality
    N/A
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a1-L621- PH 908
    mtDNA (M)
    H 47

    Good thread and very worthy question

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gravetto-Danubian For This Useful Post:

     David Mc (10-18-2015),  rms2 (10-17-2015)

  14. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,051
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty
    I think the domestication is a separate issue and probably involved a single type horse that was present in that area and adapted to the enviromental conditions.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Afshar For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (10-18-2015)

  16. #9
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    8,162

    Not on horses, but saw this on dogs:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/10/14/1516215112
    "Using genomic data from 5,392 dogs, including a global set of 549 village dogs, we find strong evidence that dogs were domesticated in Central Asia, perhaps near present-day Nepal and Mongolia. Dogs in nearby regions (e.g., East Asia, India, and Southwest Asia) contain high levels of genetic diversity due to their proximity to Central Asia and large population sizes. Indigenous dog populations in the Neotropics and South Pacific have been largely replaced by European dogs, whereas those in Africa show varying degrees of European vs. indigenous African ancestry ... Using a semicustom 185,805-marker genotyping array, we conducted a large-scale survey of autosomal, mitochondrial, and Y chromosome diversity in 4,676 purebred dogs from 161 breeds and 549 village dogs from 38 countries ... many populations—including those of Vietnam, India, and Egypt—show minimal evidence of European admixture. These populations exhibit a clear gradient of short-range linkage disequilibrium consistent with a Central Asian domestication origin."

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     paulgill (10-21-2015),  rms2 (10-21-2015)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 962
    Last Post: 09-18-2020, 12:22 AM
  2. First Horse Warriors Video (Ancient DNA Discussed)
    By rms2 in forum History (Ancient)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 05-20-2019, 10:47 AM
  3. Ancient DNA upends the horse family tree
    By Jean M in forum Fauna
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 05-09-2018, 06:07 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-19-2017, 12:30 PM
  5. Italian Horse Breeds
    By vettor in forum Fauna
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-11-2016, 06:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •