FTDNA SNP Pack

[Just_Doc]

Hey Folks,

Recent listener, first time caller.

I am wondering which R1a SNP pack I should pull the trigger on - the Z283, the Z280 or neither?

I am a bit confused in regards to what my actual subclade is because according the 23&me, I am M207+, M306+, P224+, P227+, P232+, P280+, and P285-; however, it is not clear as to whether or not 23&me tests for P285. I will assume that since I test positive for 6 out of 7 of the defining mutations, that the 7th one is a given, according to the chipset and the known information.

To add more confusion, when comparing the deeper data on my chip with SNPedia subclades, I appear to also be M64.2+, M87+ and M204-; as well as P278+. Despite being M204-, would it also be safe to assume that my actual subclade is closer to R1a1a1c/R1a1a1a2c?

If this is indeed the case, is it still worth paying for the SNP package, or should I pick and choose which additional SNP's to test, and if so, does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, if there is someone out there who has some info regarding parallel SNP's that 23&me DOES test for that would by default narrow things down a bit in terms of subclades, I would be more than willing to post my info up for analysis.

[lgmayka]

To add more confusion, when comparing the deeper data on my chip with SNPedia subclades, I appear to also be M64.2+, M87+ and M204-; as well as P278+.

If you are actually P278+ , then you belong to R-P278 (or R-P278.2, since P278.1 is in haplogroup E). But R-P278 is quite specific--it is ordinarily found in Central and Eastern Europe. Are you sure you are interpreting 23andMe's data properly? Does 23andMe say you are R1a1a, or are you interpreting that for yourself?

[paulgill]

Hey Folks,

Recent listener, first time caller.

I am wondering which R1a SNP pack I should pull the trigger on - the Z283, the Z280 or neither?

I am a bit confused in regards to what my actual subclade is because according the 23&me, I am M207+, M306+, P224+, P227+, P232+, P280+, and P285-; however, it is not clear as to whether or not 23&me tests for P285. I will assume that since I test positive for 6 out of 7 of the defining mutations, that the 7th one is a given, according to the chipset and the known information.

To add more confusion, when comparing the deeper data on my chip with SNPedia subclades, I appear to also be M64.2+, M87+ and M204-; as well as P278+. Despite being M204-, would it also be safe to assume that my actual subclade is closer to R1a1a1c/R1a1a1a2c?

If this is indeed the case, is it still worth paying for the SNP package, or should I pick and choose which additional SNP's to test, and if so, does anyone have any recommendations?

Also, if there is someone out there who has some info regarding parallel SNP's that 23&me DOES test for that would by default narrow things down a bit in terms of subclades, I would be more than willing to post my info up for analysis.

By spending $100 on each SNP pack and ending up with a $400 bill, I suggest that you buy FullGenomes 4x WGS for $350.00 and be done with all your Ydna concerns in one shot.

[Just_Doc]

23&Me has my paternal haplogroup listed as R1a1. No interpretation on that end.

In regards to the other SNP's, I became curious after visiting the SNPedia page that lists the defining mutations needed for each respective clade. I use the SNPTips browser plug in, so every time a SNP is mentioned by its RSID and it matches what data I have, it illuminates. I will attach screen shots when I get home to illustrate.

Is it possible that I am seeing autosomal artifact? I suppose that ultimately I would need to go back into my 23&me data or my full Promethese report and figure out what specific gene the defining mutation is on.

[Just_Doc]

The FTDNA SNP Pack is $119 I believe.

[paulgill]

The FTDNA SNP Pack is $119 I believe.

But you may need many packs and still wouldn't get your terminal SNP with SNP packs.

[Just_Doc]

HGI1.jpg23&me1.jpgHGR1b1.jpgHGI1.jpgHGI2.jpgHGR.jpg

If you are actually P278+ , then you belong to R-P278 (or R-P278.2, since P278.1 is in haplogroup E). But R-P278 is quite specific--it is ordinarily found in Central and Eastern Europe. Are you sure you are interpreting 23andMe's data properly? Does 23andMe say you are R1a1a, or are you interpreting that for yourself?

I appreciate the insight.
I have attached the screenshots to illustrate what I mentioned before. Any thoughts?

[lgmayka]

I am wondering which R1a SNP pack I should pull the trigger on - the Z283, the Z280 or neither?

So-called SNP packs are offered by FTDNA. Have you been tested by FTDNA at all? If you have only been tested by 23andMe, it is crucial that you determine whether you are actually P278+ or not. If you are P278+ , you belong to R-P278, which is already very specific. If you appear to be P278+ but want to double-check, you could order the P278 SNP test from Yseq. If you want to make sure you don't have an independent occurrence, you could order Yseq's entire Z280 SNP panel.

[Just_Doc]

So-called SNP packs are offered by FTDNA. Have you been tested by FTDNA at all? If you have only been tested by 23andMe, it is crucial that you determine whether you are actually P278+ or not. If you are P278+ , you belong to R-P278, which is already very specific. If you appear to be P278+ but want to double-check, you could order the P278 SNP test from Yseq. If you want to make sure you don't have an independent occurrence, you could order Yseq's entire Z280 SNP panel.

Thanks for the info.

No, I have yet to be tested by FTDNA, which is why I initially asked which route to go in terms of the Y packages. Had I of not been tested by 23&me initially, then it would make sense to do the Y-25 or Y-37 test.

I suppose the question is, how reliable is the 23&me data?

You mentioned testing for P278 via Yseq. Anything else you would recommend regarding the R1 clade?

Edit - So, I feel a bit stupid at the moment. After some looking around I came to the conclusion that 23&Me does indeed assign HG's based on the assumption that if you have a mutation for rs3908 (M17), for instance, that you will also have a mutation for rs2020857 (M198), despite that SNP not actually being on their chip.

Is this a correct conclusion?

It would be interesting to know the Y chromosome locations that 23&Me uses to define particular HG's. Presumably, 23&Me most likely tested this SNP for another HG because they do not go any deeper than R1a1a for the R clade from my understanding and because it is also found in more than one HG.

According to the Raw data Browser, the P278.2 SNP (rs7067418) supposedly occurs at 8467053 on the Y chromosome, if that tells you anything. Is it possible that because that the presence of the 278.2 SNP would redefine my terminal SNP?

In light of this, I suppose the next step is to follow your advice and confirm though additional testing.

[Just_Doc]

After the SNP discussion, I decided to get a Y37 test done. Yesterday I received my results and am really at a loss as to where to go next.

FTDNA states that my Haplogroup is M198, which is consistent with 23&Me.

When doing a YSearch genetics match for 12 markers with a genetic distance of 0, I get back mostly people in Hungary, Russia, Germany, Poland and Slovenia. When I expand the search to 37 markers with a distance of 4, I get one solid result from Germany. On FTDNA, under Ancestral Origins, same thing. Most heavily populated is Austria, Czech, Germany, Hungary, the Ukraine and Lithuania, most all of which have “Ashkenazi" in the comments section.

Talk about a shock.

Additionally, there are absolutely no matches for my surname, or any of it's variants. Understandably, my surname is fairly rare, but our family lineage runs deep in the United States and is well documented.....so much to the point that all of us presently living can trace our lineage to a single gentleman who arrived in Virginia in the mid-17th century. Prior to that however, there is nothing really substantial in the United States, or the UK, which is where our family was thinking he originated. To make a long story short, our family was always under the impression that our surname was a variant of the Ó Tuathail/O’Tuathail surname from Kildare.

In light of this recent genetic information, I am really unsure as to what to think at this point. There are R1a1 exact matches from the UK in the areas in which we are believed to have come from, but the profile info for the matches is marked as private.

Would it be fair to assume that the most obvious answer is that there was some sort of NPE somewhere along the way? I do not think its reasonable to assume that my MCRA in America showed up claiming to be from the UK when my own genetic data does not support that notion. Then again...stranger things have been known to happen. I mean, Judaism was banned in the UK for centuries, so it may be just as likely that his family immigrated to the UK in the middle ages and changed their names to assimilate, but a timeline would be nice.

Consequently, I ordered the Y67 upgrade today in the hopes that it will get me some further answers and also ran Whit Athley's subclade program which placed me into G2a-M406. I have joined the FTDNA R1a group and applied to the Ashkenazi group, so hopefully that will provide some additional info.

Any comments or suggestions for me regarding how I should move forward with this info?

My FTDNA kit number is 461014 and my YSearch ID is EYUK4.