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Thread: Question: Haplogroup U4c in ancient samples

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    Question: Haplogroup U4c in ancient samples

    Has haplogroup U4c been found in any ancient culture? I understand that haplogroup U, as a whole, is associated with hunter-gatherers. But when it comes to U4 or U4c specifically, who had them? Western hunter gatheres? Eastern HG?...

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    U4c1 is found in two ancient genome of Bell Beaker:
    Bell Beaker Karsdorf [KAR 51] (Germany) 2314-2278 BC
    Bell Beaker Karsdorf [KAR 52] (Germany) 2083-2042 BC

    and in
    Bredtoftegård [Bt1] Denmark 1500-1300 BC

    U4c1a was found in Rise 512 (allentoft et al, 2015), an Armenian dating from 1000BC.
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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    Region of modern Republic of Serbia seems to have significant number of U4

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     I1-Z63 (10-31-2015)

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    According to 23andme's updated maternal lineage reports, U4c1 was born 2,500 ago. If correct, then that means the two ancient German samples mentioned by Tolan were just a few generations apart from the first U4c1 woman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafe View Post
    According to 23andme's updated maternal lineage reports, U4c1 was born 2,500 ago. If correct, then that means the two ancient German samples mentioned by Tolan were just a few generations apart from the first U4c1 woman.
    They are mistaken about a few thousand years ago!

    Now, They give the proportion among customers 23andMe:
    1 in 380 (0.26%)

    and their comments: U4c1 is relatively common among 23andMe customers.

    I don't have the same definition of the word "common"!
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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     Rafe (11-10-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    They are mistaken about a few thousand years ago!
    I agree that 2,500 sounds awfully recent (which is what makes it so exciting), but I've never seen another estimate. Which ones do you know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafe View Post
    I agree that 2,500 sounds awfully recent (which is what makes it so exciting), but I've never seen another estimate. Which ones do you know?
    More than 4,300 years since one U4c1 bell beaker was discovered dating from this period
    Y haplogroup: R1b: L21 --> DF13 --> BY145002
    The oldest L21 known are I2457 et I2565 from Stonehenge (Beaker Culture, 2400-1900 BC)

    MTDNA: U4c1
    The oldest U4c1 known are "poz224", Yamnaya culture (2882-2698 BC), and 2 Bell-Beaker in Germany (Karsdorf, 2314-2042 BC)

    Paternal MTDNA: K1b2b
    The oldest K1b2 are Eastern European Mesolithic: Kunda Donkalnis5 (Lithuania), 6000 BC and Meso-Ene Lepenski Vir Lepe28 in Serbia, 5900 BC.
    The oldest K1b2b is Alt-3, Corded-Ware Germany (2500 BC)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    More than 4,300 years since one U4c1 bell beaker was discovered dating from this period
    Oh, you are right. For some reason, I was reading those "BC"'s as "YA" (years ago).

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    There's now a paper linking U4c1 to Yamnaya:

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/0...rigins-of.html

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     Tolan (08-03-2018)

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    The recent paper "On the genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus" detected U4c1 in late Maykop kurgans.

    Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ003.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1,
    Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ002.A0101 c. 3200 BC U4c1 (yDNA L),
    Late Maykop Sinyukha kurgan SIJ001.A01(SA6002.A01) c. 3200 BC U4c1

    Yamnaya U4c1 sample from Ukraine is dated to c. 2847–2574 BC.

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