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Thread: Christians of Kerala - Thoughts on their origins ,history and evolution to present

  1. #41
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    7.Kollam - The port town on Kollam was a known centre of trade.They had a presence of Jewish community as per old narratives but largely was extinct by the time Europeans arrived. The Christian community might have absorbed them into their fold. The community was comparatively small and stayed around the surrounds of Ashtamudi Kayal rather than close to Kollam town. Thevalakkara town in north of Lake and Kundara to the south of the lake were major settlements. Majority were traders and quite rich. As a community they have retained more hindu customs than Christians further north and have some special christian traditions within in the subculture.I think the community largely derive from the Nair community with some foreign input. They have at present mingled the Christians migrated from norther regions.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    7.Kollam - The port town on Kollam was a known centre of trade.They had a presence of Jewish community as per old narratives but largely was extinct by the time Europeans arrived. The Christian community might have absorbed them into their fold. The community was comparatively small and stayed around the surrounds of Ashtamudi Kayal rather than close to Kollam town. Thevalakkara town in north of Lake and Kundara to the south of the lake were major settlements. Majority were traders and quite rich. As a community they have retained more hindu customs than Christians further north and have some special christian traditions within in the subculture.I think the community largely derive from the Nair community with some foreign input. They have at present mingled the Christians migrated from norther regions.
    Hey BMG, great summary. I would also mention Kaduthuruthy. Supposedly the Christians from Kodungallur settled here in the late medieval era. Kaduthuruthy was pretty influential, there was even a Knanaya minister (not a tharakan but an actual minister) who served Vadakkumkur during the 16th century. From what I've read there's actually records during the Portuguese era of anti-Christian sentiment in Vadakkumkur during the 16th century which led to persecution of the Christians in Kaduthuruthy. In fact after the battle for Vadakkumkur, all of the local Christians looked to Minister Kuriakose Kunnasserry who led them to Mulanthuruthy and built the church there (however some sources state he re-built the existing structure). This event is recorded by both the Nasrani and Knanaya.

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    List of churches in kerala during the time of synod of diamper. List is incomplete since there was at least 105 churches at the time. For reference i have included the name mentioned by Anthony de Gouvea in his work Jornada in 1606.

    Sl No Name as per Jornada Name Place Year of Founding Present Affiliation? District
    1 Holy Trinity Cathedral Church Kannur 1505 AD Latin Kannur
    2 Calecut Mother of God Church Kozhikode 1513 AD Latin Kozhikode
    3 Chatacolengere Arthat St Mary's Church Kunnamkulam 10th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Thrissur
    4 Mutem St Thomas Forane Church Mattom 10th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    5 Pallur Palayoor St Thomas Church Palayoor 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    6 North Pudukad Church Puthukad 5th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    7 Anamaque St Mary's Church Enamavu 495 AD Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    8 St Mary's Church,Puthenchira Kodungalloor 5th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    9 St Antony's Church Pazhuvil 883AD Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    10 St Mary's Church Chalakudy 6th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    11 St Mary's Church,Koratty Koratty 14th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    12 St Thomas Church,Ambazhakad Ambazhakad 4th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    13 Cranganor St Thomas Church Kodungalloor AD52? Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    14 Angamale St Mary's Church Angamaly 409 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    15 Agaparambim Mar Sabor Afroth Church,Akaparamba Angamaly 825 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    16 St Mary's Church , Moozhikulam Angamaly 650 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    17 Holy Cross Church,Manjapra Angamaly 14th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    18 Chegure St Mary's Church Chowara 1025 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    19 Mangate St Mary's Church,Alengad Aluva 14th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    20 Canhur St Mary's Forane Church Kanjoor 1001 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    21 Maleatur St Thomas Church Malayattoor 9th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    22 Nhagrica St Mary's Church Njarackal 1451 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    23 Vaipin Cruz Milagres Church,Ochanthuruth Vypin 1573 AD Latin Ernakulam
    24 Paru Kottakavu St Thomas Church North Paravoor 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    25 Vaipicotta Holy Cross Church,Chendamangalam North Paravoor 1577 AD Latin Ernakulam
    26 Repelim St George Church,Edapally Ernakulam 593 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    27 St Mary's Church,Broadway,Ernakulam Ernakulam 1112 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    28 Cochim St Lawrence Church,Edakochi Kochi 1504 AD Latin Ernakulam
    29 St Louis Church,Mundamveli Kochi 9th Century Latin Ernakulam
    30 Our Lady of Life Church,Mattanchery Kochi 16th Century Latin Ernakulam
    31 Codamangalao St Thomas Cheriapally Kothamangalam 1455 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    32 Codamangalao St Mary's Valiapally Kothamangalam 1340 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    33 St Mary's Church Kuruppampady 14th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    34 Pallurte St Mary's Church Palluruthy 1191 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    35 St Thomas Church Kuthiathode 1301 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    36 St Peters and Paul Church Kolenchery 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    37 Narame St Mary's Church,Nadama Tripunithura 12th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    38 St George's Church Karingachira Tripunithura 722 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    39 St George's Church Kadamattom 9th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    40 Aracore St Mary's Church ,Arakuzha Muvattupuzha 7th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    41 Malucompil St Thomas Forane Church,Mylakompu Thodupuzha 6th Century Syro-Malabar Idukki
    42 Diamper Synod of Diamper Church Udayamperoor 10th Century Knanaya Catholic Ernakulam
    43 Mulanturte St Thomas Church Mulanthururthy 1110 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    44 Prouto St Mary's Cathedral Piravom 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    45 Paru(Thekken) St John the Baptist Church South Parur 8th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    46 Carturte St Mary's Knanaya Church Kadathuruthy 5th Century Knanaya Catholic Kottayam
    47 Nagpili Holy Ghost Forane Church, Muttuchira Kadathuruthy 510 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    48 St Gervasis abd Prothasis Church,Kothanallur Ettumanoor 826 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    49 St Mary's Church,Athirampuzha Ettumanoor 835 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    50 Baiqueta St Joseph's Forane Church Vaikom 1391 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    51 St Mary's Church,Kudavechoor Vechoor 1463 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    52 Pallipurao St Mary's Church,Pallipuram Cherthala 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    53 Muttao St Mary's Church,Muttam Cherthala 1023 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    54 Cottete St Mary's Church Kottayam 1579 AD Knanaya Catholic Kottayam
    55 Coramalur St Mary's Church,Kudamaloor Kottayam 12th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    56 Marquitil St Mary's Church, Manarcad 16th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    57 Baragore St John the Baptist Church,Vadagara Koothattukulam 10th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    58 Changanagere St Mary's Cathedral Changanassery 1177 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    59 Marubuli St Mary's Church Nediasala 999 AD Syro-Malabar Idukki
    60 Turubule ??
    61 Conengate St Mary's Church Kuruvilangad 105 AD? Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    62 St Mary's Church,Kadaplamattom Pala 10th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    63 Palla St Thomas Church,Pala Pala 1002 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    64 Holy Cross Church,Cherpunkal Pala 1111 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    65 Ignapeli ??
    66 Carathnarat St Mary's Church Bharananganam 1004 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    67 Iratur St George's Church, Aruvithura Erattupetta 4th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    68 Canharapaly St Mary's Church Kanhirapally 1449 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    69 St Peter and Paul Church Elanji 14th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    70 St Augustine Forane Church Ramapuram 1450 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    71 Poligunde St Mary's Church,Pulinkunnu Kuttanad 1557 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    72 St Mary's Church Champakulam Kalloorkad 427 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    73 Naranao St Mary's Church Niranom 1st Century? Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    74 St George's Church Cheppad 13th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    75 St Thomas Church,Karthigapally Karthigapally 10th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    76 Arthunkal Church Alappuzha 1584 AD Latin Alappuzha
    77 Batemana St Mary's Church Venmony 14th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    78 Changanor Old Syrian Church Chengannur 5th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    79 Mauelicare St Mary's Church Mavelikkara 943 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    80 Caleculao Kadeesa Orthodox Church Kayamkulam 825 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    81 Truilar St George's Church,Paliakara Thiruvalla 1st Century? Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    82 Tuumpone St Mary's Church Thumpamon 717 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    83 St Mary's Church Kalloopara 1339 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    84 St Thomas Church Kozhencherry 1599 AD Marthoma Pathanamthitta
    85 Coulao Kadeesa Syrian Church Kollam 1519 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    86 Our Lady of Purification Church ,Thangassery Kollam 1st Century? Latin Kollam
    87 Gundara St Thomas Church Kundara 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    88 Tuelacare St Mary's Church Thevalakkara 4th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    89 Catare St Mary's Church,West Kallada Kallada 9th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    Last edited by BMG; 10-07-2020 at 06:54 PM.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
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    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
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    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

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  7. #44
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    The founding years of church is per the tradition. Some are correct but i have included it to give a general idea about distribution of churches prior to portugese arrival.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
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    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
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    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    List of churches in kerala during the time of synod of diamper. List is incomplete since there was at least 105 churches at the time. For reference i have included the name mentioned by Anthony de Gouvea in his work Jornada in 1606.

    Sl No Name as per Jornada Name Place Year of Founding Present Affiliation? District
    1 Holy Trinity Cathedral Church Kannur 1505 AD Latin Kannur
    2 Calecut Mother of God Church Kozhikode 1513 AD Latin Kozhikode
    3 Chatacolengere Arthat St Mary's Church Kunnamkulam 10th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Thrissur
    4 Mutem St Thomas Forane Church Mattom 10th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    5 Pallur Palayoor St Thomas Church Palayoor 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    6 North Pudukad Church Puthukad 5th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    7 Anamaque St Mary's Church Enamavu 495 AD Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    8 St Mary's Church,Puthenchira Kodungalloor 5th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    9 St Antony's Church Pazhuvil 883AD Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    10 St Mary's Church Chalakudy 6th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    11 St Mary's Church,Koratty Koratty 14th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    12 St Thomas Church,Ambazhakad Ambazhakad 4th Century Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    13 Cranganor St Thomas Church Kodungalloor AD52? Syro-Malabar Thrissur
    14 Angamale St Mary's Church Angamaly 409 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    15 Agaparambim Mar Sabor Afroth Church,Akaparamba Angamaly 825 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    16 St Mary's Church , Moozhikulam Angamaly 650 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    17 Holy Cross Church,Manjapra Angamaly 14th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    18 Chegure St Mary's Church Chowara 1025 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    19 Mangate St Mary's Church,Alengad Aluva 14th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    20 Canhur St Mary's Forane Church Kanjoor 1001 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    21 Maleatur St Thomas Church Malayattoor 9th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    22 Nhagrica St Mary's Church Njarackal 1451 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    23 Vaipin Cruz Milagres Church,Ochanthuruth Vypin 1573 AD Latin Ernakulam
    24 Paru Kottakavu St Thomas Church North Paravoor 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    25 Vaipicotta Holy Cross Church,Chendamangalam North Paravoor 1577 AD Latin Ernakulam
    26 Repelim St George Church,Edapally Ernakulam 593 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    27 St Mary's Church,Broadway,Ernakulam Ernakulam 1112 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    28 Cochim St Lawrence Church,Edakochi Kochi 1504 AD Latin Ernakulam
    29 St Louis Church,Mundamveli Kochi 9th Century Latin Ernakulam
    30 Our Lady of Life Church,Mattanchery Kochi 16th Century Latin Ernakulam
    31 Codamangalao St Thomas Cheriapally Kothamangalam 1455 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    32 Codamangalao St Mary's Valiapally Kothamangalam 1340 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    33 St Mary's Church Kuruppampady 14th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    34 Pallurte St Mary's Church Palluruthy 1191 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    35 St Thomas Church Kuthiathode 1301 AD Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    36 St Peters and Paul Church Kolenchery 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    37 Narame St Mary's Church,Nadama Tripunithura 12th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    38 St George's Church Karingachira Tripunithura 722 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    39 St George's Church Kadamattom 9th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    40 Aracore St Mary's Church ,Arakuzha Muvattupuzha 7th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    41 Malucompil St Thomas Forane Church,Mylakompu Thodupuzha 6th Century Syro-Malabar Idukki
    42 Diamper Synod of Diamper Church Udayamperoor 10th Century Knanaya Catholic Ernakulam
    43 Mulanturte St Thomas Church Mulanthururthy 1110 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    44 Prouto St Mary's Cathedral Piravom 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    45 Paru(Thekken) St John the Baptist Church South Parur 8th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Ernakulam
    46 Carturte St Mary's Knanaya Church Kadathuruthy 5th Century Knanaya Catholic Kottayam
    47 Nagpili Holy Ghost Forane Church, Muttuchira Kadathuruthy 510 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    48 St Gervasis abd Prothasis Church,Kothanallur Ettumanoor 826 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    49 St Mary's Church,Athirampuzha Ettumanoor 835 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    50 Baiqueta St Joseph's Forane Church Vaikom 1391 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    51 St Mary's Church,Kudavechoor Vechoor 1463 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    52 Pallipurao St Mary's Church,Pallipuram Cherthala 1st Century? Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    53 Muttao St Mary's Church,Muttam Cherthala 1023 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    54 Cottete St Mary's Church Kottayam 1579 AD Knanaya Catholic Kottayam
    55 Coramalur St Mary's Church,Kudamaloor Kottayam 12th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    56 Marquitil St Mary's Church, Manarcad 16th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    57 Baragore St John the Baptist Church,Vadagara Koothattukulam 10th Century Syro-Malabar Ernakulam
    58 Changanagere St Mary's Cathedral Changanassery 1177 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    59 Marubuli St Mary's Church Nediasala 999 AD Syro-Malabar Idukki
    60 Turubule ??
    61 Conengate St Mary's Church Kuruvilangad 105 AD? Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    62 St Mary's Church,Kadaplamattom Pala 10th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    63 Palla St Thomas Church,Pala Pala 1002 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    64 Holy Cross Church,Cherpunkal Pala 1111 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    65 Ignapeli ??
    66 Carathnarat St Mary's Church Bharananganam 1004 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    67 Iratur St George's Church, Aruvithura Erattupetta 4th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    68 Canharapaly St Mary's Church Kanhirapally 1449 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    69 St Peter and Paul Church Elanji 14th Century Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    70 St Augustine Forane Church Ramapuram 1450 AD Syro-Malabar Kottayam
    71 Poligunde St Mary's Church,Pulinkunnu Kuttanad 1557 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    72 St Mary's Church Champakulam Kalloorkad 427 AD Syro-Malabar Alappuzha
    73 Naranao St Mary's Church Niranom 1st Century? Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    74 St George's Church Cheppad 13th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    75 St Thomas Church,Karthigapally Karthigapally 10th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    76 Arthunkal Church Alappuzha 1584 AD Latin Alappuzha
    77 Batemana St Mary's Church Venmony 14th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    78 Changanor Old Syrian Church Chengannur 5th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    79 Mauelicare St Mary's Church Mavelikkara 943 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    80 Caleculao Kadeesa Orthodox Church Kayamkulam 825 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Alappuzha
    81 Truilar St George's Church,Paliakara Thiruvalla 1st Century? Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    82 Tuumpone St Mary's Church Thumpamon 717 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    83 St Mary's Church Kalloopara 1339 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Pathanamthitta
    84 St Thomas Church Kozhencherry 1599 AD Marthoma Pathanamthitta
    85 Coulao Kadeesa Syrian Church Kollam 1519 AD Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    86 Our Lady of Purification Church ,Thangassery Kollam 1st Century? Latin Kollam
    87 Gundara St Thomas Church Kundara 7th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    88 Tuelacare St Mary's Church Thevalakkara 4th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    89 Catare St Mary's Church,West Kallada Kallada 9th Century Orthodox/Jacobite Kollam
    Paternal Grandfathers family was originally from Kaipuzha and were members of the old church of Athirampuzha. Maternal Grandmothers family from the adjacent village of Neendoor were also members of this church. Separate daughter churches were built in Neendoor and Kaipuzha during the early 1800s. Paternal grandfathers family left Kaipuzha before it’s construction and moved to Thalayolaparambu when the market was established there in 1812. They were among the few Christian families living there at that time with most neighbors being Muslim merchants and some Hindu families. The nearest church was Kaduthuruthy.

    Few generations lived within the market itself in a bilevel house with first floor as storefront and living quarters on the second floor. They grew fairly prosperous and moved across the Moovatupuzha river and settled in Brahmangalam. They were briefly members of the old Jacobite church of Chempu before a separate church was built at Brahmangalam.

    Paternal Grandmothers family were originally from Kaduthuruthy but settled down in Kothanalloor sometime in the mid 1800s. They were quite poor and had a local reputation for being roughnecks with a propensity for violence. Most of them made their living as petty merchants (textiles, chickens, cow milk etc) and Lorry drivers. They became members of the old church of Kothanaloor and were big time devotees of kandeesangal, the twin saints. Despite this, weddings and funerals were still conducted at the mother church. For funerals the casket would be put in the back of a lorry and driven to Kaduthuruthy for burial.

    Maternal Grandfathers family were a traditional farming family of modest means. They were also members of the old church of Kaduthuruthy.

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustyshakelford View Post
    Paternal Grandfathers family was originally from Kaipuzha and were members of the old church of Athirampuzha. Maternal Grandmothers family from the adjacent village of Neendoor were also members of this church. Separate daughter churches were built in Neendoor and Kaipuzha during the early 1800s. Paternal grandfathers family left Kaipuzha before it’s construction and moved to Thalayolaparambu when the market was established there in 1812. They were among the few Christian families living there at that time with most neighbors being Muslim merchants and some Hindu families. The nearest church was Kaduthuruthy.

    Few generations lived within the market itself in a bilevel house with first floor as storefront and living quarters on the second floor. They grew fairly prosperous and moved across the Moovatupuzha river and settled in Brahmangalam. They were briefly members of the old Jacobite church of Chempu before a separate church was built at Brahmangalam.

    Paternal Grandmothers family were originally from Kaduthuruthy but settled down in Kothanalloor sometime in the mid 1800s. They were quite poor and had a local reputation for being roughnecks with a propensity for violence. Most of them made their living as petty merchants (textiles, chickens, cow milk etc) and Lorry drivers. They became members of the old church of Kothanaloor and were big time devotees of kandeesangal, the twin saints. Despite this, weddings and funerals were still conducted at the mother church. For funerals the casket would be put in the back of a lorry and driven to Kaduthuruthy for burial.

    Maternal Grandfathers family were a traditional farming family of modest means. They were also members of the old church of Kaduthuruthy.
    I found Kadathuruthy and Udayamperoor to be Knanaya Churches during the time of Synod of Diamper. They also had a new seperate church at Kottayam and there were many knanaya families in Chengannur Church before the construction of a seperate church.So i presume these places to be the major Knanaya settlements of 16th century. Both Kadathuruthy and Udayamperoor churches didn't participate in the Coonan Cross Oath and continued to be with the Archbishop.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to BMG For This Useful Post:

     Rustyshakelford (10-10-2020)

  12. #47
    Registered Users
    Posts
    791
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y7
    mtDNA (M)
    R30a1c
    Y-DNA (M)
    L-M357
    mtDNA (P)
    J1b1a1

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustyshakelford View Post
    Paternal Grandfathers family was originally from Kaipuzha and were members of the old church of Athirampuzha. Maternal Grandmothers family from the adjacent village of Neendoor were also members of this church. Separate daughter churches were built in Neendoor and Kaipuzha during the early 1800s. Paternal grandfathers family left Kaipuzha before it’s construction and moved to Thalayolaparambu when the market was established there in 1812. They were among the few Christian families living there at that time with most neighbors being Muslim merchants and some Hindu families. The nearest church was Kaduthuruthy.

    Few generations lived within the market itself in a bilevel house with first floor as storefront and living quarters on the second floor. They grew fairly prosperous and moved across the Moovatupuzha river and settled in Brahmangalam. They were briefly members of the old Jacobite church of Chempu before a separate church was built at Brahmangalam.

    Paternal Grandmothers family were originally from Kaduthuruthy but settled down in Kothanalloor sometime in the mid 1800s. They were quite poor and had a local reputation for being roughnecks with a propensity for violence. Most of them made their living as petty merchants (textiles, chickens, cow milk etc) and Lorry drivers. They became members of the old church of Kothanaloor and were big time devotees of kandeesangal, the twin saints. Despite this, weddings and funerals were still conducted at the mother church. For funerals the casket would be put in the back of a lorry and driven to Kaduthuruthy for burial.

    Maternal Grandfathers family were a traditional farming family of modest means. They were also members of the old church of Kaduthuruthy.
    My Paternal grandfather's family is from Puthencavu near Chengannur. At least 3 generations back the family were settled there. They were part of St Mary's Orthodox Church , Puthencavu. The ancestors earlier worked for a local hindu aristocratic family later became small-time rice farmers and worked on leased lands and some members also ran a mutton shop. Since they did work of a butcher they were often were not considered highly by the local Syrian Christian Community. Paternal Grandmother's family is from Venmony .They were again small-time rice farmers and also practised vaidyam along with it. They were also very poor and some members of the family worked as kadathukaran across the achankovil river. Their mother church is St Mary's church Venmony.
    Maternal Grandfather's family is from Ranni with unverifiable stories of migration of direct male ancestor from kollam in 18th century. They were very rich and were merchants of rice and coconut oil. They also had agircultural land which were mostly given for lease. Maternal Grandmother's family was originally from Niranom. Later Migrated to Mavelikkara after losing their home and crops to a flood sometime in 19th century. Later generations further migrated to Adoor,Venmony and Othera. The family were again small-time farmers and were not that rich. They farmed mostly rice and sugarcane in early days. My Grandmother's maternal grandfather also worked as a Ashan who taught bible along with basic reading and writing to children.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to BMG For This Useful Post:

     Rustyshakelford (10-10-2020)

  14. #48
    Registered Users
    Posts
    238
    Ethnicity
    Malayalee (Knanaya)
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2-L295 > Y1361
    mtDNA (M)
    M33a2b

    India United States of America Kingdom of Cochin Kingdom of Travancore
    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    I found Kadathuruthy and Udayamperoor to be Knanaya Churches during the time of Synod of Diamper. They also had a new seperate church at Kottayam and there were many knanaya families in Chengannur Church before the construction of a seperate church.So i presume these places to be the major Knanaya settlements of 16th century. Both Kadathuruthy and Udayamperoor churches didn't participate in the Coonan Cross Oath and continued to be with the Archbishop.
    The principle Knanaya settlement was probably Kodungalloor up until the early 16th century. in a bid to regain a foothold on trade, the Christians and the Jews had sought to ally themselves with the Portuguese. The Moors backed by the Zamorin were the dominant traders and naval force during that period. The Christians and Jews hoped Portuguese naval prowess could help put an end to this hegemony. I’ve read an account by a Jewish traveler from that era who characterized the Jews living in Kodungalloor as being miserably poor, I assume the condition of the Christians to have been similar.

    They eventually left Kodungalloor when it was destroyed by war, and joined their relatives who had settled in Udayamperoor and Kaduthuruthy centuries before. This influx of new arrivals would explain the surge of new churches built during the subsequent decades which included Kottayam, Chunkom(Thodupuzha), Kalissery(Chenganur), Uzhavoor, Punnathura, Paingalam etc.

    The new arrivals came as refugees and were likely quite poor and as they moved inland they encountered the older Christian groups who were a powerful and well propertied bunch. These class differences may have exacerbated the communal tensions between them. Even today some of the wealthiest Syrian Christians live in the eastern parts of kottayam district aka the “achayan belt”. The Knanaya presence in these areas is negligible and they seem to have settled in some of the satellite villages bordering the main centers like Palai, indicating that they were later settlers.

    Almost all lines of my family can be traced back to Kaduthuruthy with the exception of my direct paternal line who’s family were members of the Athirampuzha church. This church claims to have been founded in the 9th century by 8 families, 2 of which were Knanaya families from Ettumannoor. Some of the older, well propertied familes in Kaipuzha and Neendoor claim descent from those 2 families. I don’t believe my family belongs to this group though, so I’d assume they were likely later settlers who came from either Kottayam, Kaduthuruthy or Udayamperoor.

    As for the Coonan cross oath, Kaduthuruthy, Chunkom and Udayamperoor stood firmly behind Archbishop Garcia while those in Kottayam were split, with a minority professing allegiance to Archdeacon Thomas. The only Knanaya church that was outright against the Jesuits was Kalliserry (Chenganur). Ironically, the leader of the Coonan cross oath was a Knanaya priest even though the majority of Knanaya people didn’t participate. Those from Kalliserry continued to move southward and settled in Ranni which is now much bigger than the parent church. These people were among the first settlers of that region and thus they grew to be quite wealthy.
    Y-DNA: Hidden Content
    MtDNA: Hidden Content

    Yfull Id: YF73655

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Rustyshakelford For This Useful Post:

     BMG (10-10-2020)

  16. #49
    Registered Users
    Posts
    791
    Sex
    Omitted
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Y7
    mtDNA (M)
    R30a1c
    Y-DNA (M)
    L-M357
    mtDNA (P)
    J1b1a1

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustyshakelford View Post
    The principle Knanaya settlement was probably Kodungalloor up until the early 16th century. in a bid to regain a foothold on trade, the Christians and the Jews had sought to ally themselves with the Portuguese. The Moors backed by the Zamorin were the dominant traders and naval force during that period. The Christians and Jews hoped Portuguese naval prowess could help put an end to this hegemony. I’ve read an account by a Jewish traveler from that era who characterized the Jews living in Kodungalloor as being miserably poor, I assume the condition of the Christians to have been similar.

    They eventually left Kodungalloor when it was destroyed by war, and joined their relatives who had settled in Udayamperoor and Kaduthuruthy centuries before. This influx of new arrivals would explain the surge of new churches built during the subsequent decades which included Kottayam, Chunkom(Thodupuzha), Kalissery(Chenganur), Uzhavoor, Punnathura, Paingalam etc.

    The new arrivals came as refugees and were likely quite poor and as they moved inland they encountered the older Christian groups who were a powerful and well propertied bunch. These class differences may have exacerbated the communal tensions between them. Even today some of the wealthiest Syrian Christians live in the eastern parts of kottayam district aka the “achayan belt”. The Knanaya presence in these areas is negligible and they seem to have settled in some of the satellite villages bordering the main centers like Palai, indicating that they were later settlers.

    Almost all lines of my family can be traced back to Kaduthuruthy with the exception of my direct paternal line who’s family were members of the Athirampuzha church. This church claims to have been founded in the 9th century by 8 families, 2 of which were Knanaya families from Ettumannoor. Some of the older, well propertied familes in Kaipuzha and Neendoor claim descent from those 2 families. I don’t believe my family belongs to this group though, so I’d assume they were likely later settlers who came from either Kottayam, Kaduthuruthy or Udayamperoor.

    As for the Coonan cross oath, Kaduthuruthy, Chunkom and Udayamperoor stood firmly behind Archbishop Garcia while those in Kottayam were split, with a minority professing allegiance to Archdeacon Thomas. The only Knanaya church that was outright against the Jesuits was Kalliserry (Chenganur). Ironically, the leader of the Coonan cross oath was a Knanaya priest even though the majority of Knanaya people didn’t participate. Those from Kalliserry continued to move southward and settled in Ranni which is now much bigger than the parent church. These people were among the first settlers of that region and thus they grew to be quite wealthy.
    What about the churches in Kochi area? The Mattanchery church where the coonan cross oath held is said to have many Syrian families during that time but today it is a Latin church along with other two old churches at Edakochi and Mundamveli.
    On the contrary the Kundara and Thevalakkara churches initially remained Latin but shifted back to Syrian fold later.
     

    My ancestral ydna haplogroups

    My Y-Line - R1a-Z93+L657+ Y7+
    Maternal Grandfather's Y-Line - L1a2-M357
    Paternal GM's family Y-Line - C1b-P92+ K96+
    Maternal GM's family Y-Line - J2a1-L26(M47- M67- M68- L24-)

    Ydna haplogroups of my ftdna family finder matches

    Second-Fourth Cousins
    R1a-Z93+ Y40+
    R1a-M17(not further tested)
    R2a-M124+ L295-(2)
    Q1a-L56+ Y2659+ Z5902+

    Third-Fifth Cousins
    R1a-M17(3)(Not further tested)
    J2b2-M241
    L1a1-M27+
    F-M89(possibly H3?)

  17. #50
    Registered Users
    Posts
    238
    Ethnicity
    Malayalee (Knanaya)
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2-L295 > Y1361
    mtDNA (M)
    M33a2b

    India United States of America Kingdom of Cochin Kingdom of Travancore
    Quote Originally Posted by BMG View Post
    What about the churches in Kochi area? The Mattanchery church where the coonan cross oath held is said to have many Syrian families during that time but today it is a Latin church along with other two old churches at Edakochi and Mundamveli.
    On the contrary the Kundara and Thevalakkara churches initially remained Latin but shifted back to Syrian fold later.
    I don’t know about those particular churches. It is possible though that some of the older Syrian churches in and around kochi may have adopted the Latin form of worship during the height of Portuguese dominance. Among the Latin Catholics there’s a sub caste called the Ezhunootikkar(700s) who claim Syrian Christian heritage. They make up the majority of the Diocese of Cochin, meanwhile the rival sub caste called Anjootikar(500s) are concentrated in the Diocese of Alapuzha. I’ve also heard speculation that the church of Arthunkal may have also been a Syrian parish originally.

    Surprisingly, the dissident movement led by the Archdeacon was very strong in the Kingdom of Cochin despite the heavy Portuguese presence. Udayamperoor remained firmly Catholic because of the Knanaya presence but the neighboring churches like Kandanad, Karingachira, Pallikkara, Mulanthuruthy and Tripunithara are all Jacobite strongholds. This influence extends south through Piravom and into parts of Northwest Kottayam district like Chempu, Peruva, Veloore, etc. Just east of these places become heavily Catholic because they fall within the sphere of Kaduthuruthy and Kuruvilangadu which were Catholic strongholds.
    I don’t know anything about Thevalakkara, Kundara area as I’ve never had to travel that far south. But many churches switched allegiances back and forth after the Coonan Cross Oath. Some prominent examples include Puthupally, Manarcadu, and Arakuzha.
    Y-DNA: Hidden Content
    MtDNA: Hidden Content

    Yfull Id: YF73655

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Rustyshakelford For This Useful Post:

     BMG (10-11-2020)

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