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Thread: Should DF27* men (from the M343 SNP Pack) order the new DF27 SNP Pack?

  1. #41
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    R1b>DF27>A431
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    Hi all,
    I am French, R1b1a1b1a1a2a4 (DF27>A431). Is there any interest for me to buy the DF27 SNP pack?
    Not clear to me what could be found downstream A431

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     palamede (01-14-2019)

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
    I am French, R1b1a1b1a1a2a4 (DF27>A431). Is there any interest for me to buy the DF27 SNP pack?
    Not clear to me what could be found downstream A431
    I'd think not, but I don't know how you learned that you are A431 in the first place. (YSEQ, LivingDNA, 23andMe, FGC or some other test not taken at FTDNA?) Usually that level of awareness comes after a SNP pack -- or a NextGen test, such as BigY, that's already checking more possibilities than a SNP pack.

  4. #43
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    It is the result given by 23&Me, using reference human assembly build 37, it is said in the raw data file (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/assembly/GCF_000001405.13/), from a DNA sample analysis made in December 2018.

  5. #44
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    A BigY test at FTDNA (or other NextGen sequencing of -- or including -- the Y chromosome) might well reveal some new structure below A431. France hasn't been covered very well by such testing, so far. I doubt if the basic DF27 SNP Pack would tell you much that you don't already know -- although the version of your chip test at 23andMe is more significant than the fact that they use build 37. (Dec. 2018 would, I believe, be v. 5, and better than the older versions. ArmandoR1b is the expert on that, and he has posted on this thread.)

    Here is some structure that's already been found, below A431. http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php...217&star=false

    Most of it is not tested for, on the DF27 SNP Pack. It, or something that's not yet on it, would be found with the BigY, or with some other companies' tests of similarly deep coverage. FGC now offers a "long read" product that theoretically will open a lot of new possibilities; but at first there won't be many matches to be had, since extant databases have not been reading that way. Sometimes, pioneers make the most exciting leaps forward. And sometimes they die of thirst in the desert.

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  7. #45
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    Thank you razyn, I do confirm that it comes from a v5 version. In fact I had found the Ytree phylogenic tree below A431, which is not the same than on YSEQ (for instance), which let me think that it is the really beginning of downstream tests on this branch. For other DF27>A431 descendants' information, I would like to add that I know my genealogy til about 1580 as well as my patrilineal origin til about 1100 (my surname is a toponym, situated not far from the nest of the first holders of the name ; it is uncommon enough to attest that all the people who hold it have the same ancestor, living in the Poitou region about 900-1000 years ago ; if this can help to elucidate/reject some theories about DF27>S250>..., I would be happy too share evidences even if I am aware of that there is still a gap of 3000 years to fill in).

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     palamede (01-14-2019)

  9. #46
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    I looked up what SNPs are tested by FTDNA's current DF27 SNP Pack. You can search for the various known mutations below A431 (e.g. at the ytree link in my last post; or at YFull). It's likely that there are a few others identified in results that haven't been made available to Alex Williamson (for the Big Tree, at ytree dot net). Some mutations may have been seen only once, in which case Alex doesn't display them (until there's a match in a second sample). FTDNA, YSEQ, FGC, YFull and ISOGG all treat the issue of what constitutes a new "branch" in slightly different ways. The very newest discoveries, or those not confirmed in FTDNA's data from their tested clients, aren't going to be on a SNP Pack, anyhow. Those are updated very infrequently.

    R1b - DF27 SNP Pack
    Includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
    P312, Z195, Z274, Z220, Z268, CTS7768, Z229, Z225, CTS11567, Z223, Z226, DF27, A4670, DF17, DF81, DF83, FGC20761, L617, L881, Y5058, Z198, Z209, Z2573, Z296, BY653, BY3232, Y15924, BY3233, BY3235, A2145, A2146, A431, A432, A434, A4658, A4659, ZZ19_1, ZZ12_1, BY2285, BY834, CTS1090, CTS1643, CTS416, CTS5885, CTS6578, CTS9952, DF79, DF84, Z37492, Z34609, Z32156, Z29884, FGC11369, FGC11414, FGC11419, FGC13109, FGC14113, FGC14114, FGC14115, FGC14124, FGC14126, FGC14934, FGC14951, FGC17099, FGC17102, FGC20747, FGC20748, FGC20755, FGC20764, FGC20816, FGC21115, FGC21124, FGC23066, FGC23079, FGC23083, FGC30918, FGC30964, FGC30993, FGC30994, FGC31068, Z29878, Z29875, Z29624, Z29614, M756, PH2047, S1041, SK2109, Y13115, Y14468, Y14469, Y15636, Z2571, Z2566, Z2564, Z2563, Y15637, Y15639, Y15926, Y4865, Y4867, Z2560, Y5077, Y6949, Y6951, Y7363, YP4295, Z1513, Z1899, Z196, Z2547, Z2545, A7385, Z20907, Y17221, FGC21129, BY3287, BY3288, BY3289, BY3290, BY3291, BY3292, FGC13125, FGC17114, Z2567, FGC20556, A433, Y14084, Y5072, A6456, Y17446, FGC23074, Z2556, Y16018, PH133, Z2543, S7432, FGC30962, A7014, Y17787, A7380, FGC17112, Z32164, A6458, Y16863, FGC20767, Y7364, FGC23071, BY3327, BY3328, BY3329, BY3330, BY3331, BY3332

    Includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree:
    ZZ20_1, ZZ12_2, FGC13110, FGC8127, M225, BY3286, S400
    ______________

    Just for the record, I no longer run the big DF27 project for FTDNA, Lucas McCaw does. (I'm too old to crunch massive data on a daily basis; I'm lucky to remember my grocery list.) But I did run it for the first four years, 2013-17, including when FTDNA's SNP packs were introduced.

    There may be a useful A431 group somewhere, a few guys from that side of DF27 were very interested for a while. Mher Ishkhanian in Armenia is one, Doug Thornton in VA is another. One might run into them on Facebook ISOGG or P312 groups, or maybe some Russian site loosely attached to YFull (or Semargl). I don't recall any A431s who are ancestrally French, and active on forums I've followed. But my recall is imperfect.

    Edit: Mher mentioned a match whose ancestry, at least, is French: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post250006
    Last edited by razyn; 01-14-2019 at 06:42 PM.

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