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Thread: Should DF27* men (from the M343 SNP Pack) order the new DF27 SNP Pack?

  1. #21
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    IIRC my allegation that any known but missing SNPs could only be discovered via BigY was on the FTDNA "activity feed" or whatever they call it now. As an Administrator I'm not supposed to suggest testing with their competitors; and I pretty much follow that "guideline" when posting on their site. On the DF27 Yahoo group, I did mention FGC Elite. The point is, these packs are looking for SNPs they are told to look for. They weren't told in October (when the DF27 pack was launched) to look for SNPs discovered (or put on a public tree, so we knew they had been discovered) in November or since.

    Also, although SNP pack results were posted yesterday, if one logs in to those kits and opens the Haplotree display, a few SNP names below DF27 are still in orange, nominally meaning the test for it is "in progress." I didn't open the Haplotree display for all 73 new kits, but did look at perhaps a dozen. It is possible that further discoveries might be made, in any such kit. I am not holding my breath, but it is possible.

    All of my remarks about alphabetized groups E, F or whatever refer to the only project I attempt to run, the R1b-DF27 and Subclades haplogroup project at FTDNA. I have co-admin rights in a few other projects, including DF27 at YFull and my own surname at FTDNA; but I don't mess with their groupings -- just use some of the admin tools, to learn what I can.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    Yes. The R1b-DF27 one, not the Z210 or the Z198 ones. There are three new packs, all tailored to distinct (large) segments of the DF27 project. (They didn't use my tailor, but their groupings are at least penetrable.)
    Since you seem to know a lot. I am R1b1b2a1a in 23andme (V4 chip), and I did not know that they did not test for some clades as DF27 and others. I am from Spain, I am not U106, but I cannot confirm that I am DF27+ or others since they donīt test it on v4 of their chip.

    What is the best way to know what is my real subclade? Which is the best company to test? Quality-price relation. It is ridiculous that on v3 they tested for it and on v4 they donīt test DF27, so many people from Spain just get a R1b1b2a1a and nothing else. It is disapointing.

    BTW I am also one of those rare V mtdn, probably V14 or V15 but, I just got "V" from 23andme. I donīt know why they donīt announce it on their web: "Our subclades tests are very limited, so maybe you just get a very generic one".

  4. #23
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    I am R1b1b2a1a and tested with 23andme, but on the V3 chip. They do not test for DF27 on any of their chips that I know of.

    If you are looking to test for DF27 then YSEQ.net or Family Tree DNA would be your options.

    YSEQ.net is by far the cheaper and faster company.
    http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=1934

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfttrh44 View Post
    Since you seem to know a lot. I am R1b1b2a1a in 23andme (V4 chip), and I did not know that they did not test for some clades as DF27 and others.
    I don't know a lot about 23andMe, though I did have my first test there (because a friend who had bought ten kits at a discount for his surname project, and only sold seven to its members, gave me a kit that was otherwise due to expire in a few weeks). I learned relatively little from the 23andMe analysis, such as it was. But a guy named Adriano Squecco used to do free analyses that were very detailed, if people sent him their raw data. I was among those who did so. He could only see the Y positions that the 23andMe version of the Illumina chip had been told to look at; and that coverage was not nearly broad enough to find all of our relevant SNPs, to determine fine subclade detail. But if one happened to have a then-known SNP, in a position that was scanned, the 23andMe test found it. And Adriano's Facebook page reported it (independent of 23andMe).

    Also, autosomal results from that version of 23andMe data could be transferred to Family Finder at FTDNA for $50. I did that, too. And Family Finder has been much more useful to me than the erratic tools and services available through 23andMe itself.

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     Lugus (03-13-2016)

  7. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by REWM View Post
    I am R1b1b2a1a and tested with 23andme, but on the V3 chip. They do not test for DF27 on any of their chips that I know of.

    If you are looking to test for DF27 then YSEQ.net or Family Tree DNA would be your options.

    YSEQ.net is by far the cheaper and faster company.
    http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=1934
    Yes, it looks the cheapest one. But what if I am not DF27?. It says 17.50 plus shipping cost. (to Europe, at least 40-50$). If I have to spend 80$ to test for each clade that is not U106...

    What 23andme should do it test DF27! It is so strange that they do not test it as many people in Europa can have this clade!. At least they should announce it, because it is like if I have thrown money to the dustbin: just R1b1b2a1a!. I wanted to know more and they should offer that option or at least tell us in advance that they donīt do some important clades.

  8. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    I don't know a lot about 23andMe, though I did have my first test there (because a friend who had bought ten kits at a discount for his surname project, and only sold seven to its members, gave me a kit that was otherwise due to expire in a few weeks). I learned relatively little from the 23andMe analysis, such as it was. But a guy named Adriano Squecco used to do free analyses that were very detailed, if people sent him their raw data. I was among those who did so. He could only see the Y positions that the 23andMe version of the Illumina chip had been told to look at; and that coverage was not nearly broad enough to find all of our relevant SNPs, to determine fine subclade detail. But if one happened to have a then-known SNP, in a position that was scanned, the 23andMe test found it. And Adriano's Facebook page reported it (independent of 23andMe).

    Also, autosomal results from that version of 23andMe data could be transferred to Family Finder at FTDNA for $50. I did that, too. And Family Finder has been much more useful to me than the erratic tools and services available through 23andMe itself.
    I tried the transfer to Family Finder but they donīt allow v4 chips of 23andme. Just until v3. So, nothing.

    What do you think about gedmatch?

    I posted this message for those that said that "it only serves for the last 500 years":
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post145115

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfttrh44 View Post
    Yes, it looks the cheapest one. But what if I am not DF27?. It says 17.50 plus shipping cost. (to Europe, at least 40-50$). If I have to spend 80$ to test for each clade that is not U106...

    What 23andme should do it test DF27! It is so strange that they do not test it as many people in Europa can have this clade!. At least they should announce it, because it is like if I have thrown money to the dustbin: just R1b1b2a1a!. I wanted to know more and they should offer that option or at least tell us in advance that they donīt do some important clades.
    I don't know what the shipping to Europe is, but $5 for the United States. You would only have to pay shipping once. If you wanted more testing done they use the same sample you already sent. You could also do a panel test.

    http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php...ducts_id=16349

    23andme focus is on Medical not Ancestry. What Ancestry do report is very basic and outdated for Haplogroups.
    Last edited by REWM; 03-12-2016 at 10:08 PM.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfttrh44 View Post
    Yes, it looks the cheapest one. But what if I am not DF27?. It says 17.50 plus shipping cost. (to Europe, at least 40-50$). If I have to spend 80$ to test for each clade that is not U106...

    What 23andme should do it test DF27! It is so strange that they do not test it as many people in Europa can have this clade!. At least they should announce it, because it is like if I have thrown money to the dustbin: just R1b1b2a1a!. I wanted to know more and they should offer that option or at least tell us in advance that they donīt do some important clades.
    Since you are R1b1b2a1a at 23andme you are negative for U106, U152, L21, M167/SRY2627, and M153. You can follow the procedure at http://blog.kittycooper.com/2014/04/...-dna-analysis/ to see that for yourself. That information along with the fact that your paternal line is from Spain and the Valverde et al. study at http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2015114a.html found 0% L238 and DF19 in Spain and the FTDNA and 1,000 Genomes projects haven't found Latin Americans or Spaniards with those SNPs but almost 100% DF27 when they are R1b but negative for U106, U152, and L21 then it would be extremely rare for you to be negative for DF27. You would very likely save money by getting the DF27 SNP test at YSEQ. After that, if positive for DF27, you will probably want to get the DF27 panel test at YSEQ http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php...ducts_id=10749

  11. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Since you are R1b1b2a1a at 23andme you are negative for U106, U152, L21, M167/SRY2627, and M153. You can follow the procedure at http://blog.kittycooper.com/2014/04/...-dna-analysis/ to see that for yourself. That information along with the fact that your paternal line is from Spain and the Valverde et al. study at http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2015114a.html found 0% L238 and DF19 in Spain and the FTDNA and 1,000 Genomes projects haven't found Latin Americans or Spaniards with those SNPs but almost 100% DF27 when they are R1b but negative for U106, U152, and L21 then it would be extremely rare for you to be negative for DF27. You would very likely save money by getting the DF27 SNP test at YSEQ. After that, if positive for DF27, you will probably want to get the DF27 panel test at YSEQ http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php...ducts_id=10749
    Thanks. I will take a look.

    But, I have read on other thread that it could also be useful to do NatGeo, by the cost it will go almost the same than doing what you suggest (also with the panel test)

    "NatGeo has selected their 12,000 Y-DNA SNPs from a worldwide population, whereas BritainsDNA have selected their 14,000 Y-DNA SNPs from a mainly European population and therefore has a bias in favour of haplogroup R1b1a2a1a."

    It would be much better BristainsDNA but they doesnīt seem to send to my country.

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfttrh44 View Post
    Thanks. I will take a look.

    But, I have read on other thread that it could also be useful to do NatGeo, by the cost it will go almost the same than doing what you suggest (also with the panel test)

    "NatGeo has selected their 12,000 Y-DNA SNPs from a worldwide population, whereas BritainsDNA have selected their 14,000 Y-DNA SNPs from a mainly European population and therefore has a bias in favour of haplogroup R1b1a2a1a."

    It would be much better BristainsDNA but they doesnīt seem to send to my country.
    I have a couple of CSV files from NatGeo results and the YTree has a list of DF27 SNPs at http://www.ytree.net/ I am going to see which ones downstream DF27 are in the NatGeo test and let you know which ones aren't in NatGeo but are in the YSEQ panel. By the way, NatGeo has put some people into the wrong subclade including some DF27 people. See the threads at http://www.anthrogenica.com/forumdis...p?137-Geno-2-0

    update: There are only about 200 SNPs, including equivalents, downstream from DF27 that are in the NatGeo CSV file that are also visible in the tree at http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=29 There might be a dozen more SNPs that are in the NatGeo test that are downstream from DF27 but they are very likely insignificant for you.
    These are the SNPs downstream from DF27 that are in the NatGeo test (I had to separate equivalents) -

    Code:
    Z195
    Z198
    CTS4188
    S14445
    S11121
    S11475
    S22015
    Z269
    Z263
    Z201
    Z203
    Z202
    CTS8289
    Z207
    CTS4299
    FGC11226
    FGC11232
    FGC11235
    FGC11237
    FGC11240
    FGC11244
    FGC11248
    FGC11252
    CTS3444
    CTS5447
    CTS5606
    CTS10355
    CTS4549
    CTS606
    CTS3555
    CTS6340
    A173
    Z15291
    Z2675
    CTS9158
    Z2675
    L165
    BY129
    Y5120
    BY130
    Y5111
    BY131
    Y5112
    BY134
    Y5128
    BY135
    Y5132
    BY132
    Y5119
    Y5110
    Y5113
    Y5122
    Y5115
    Y5123
    Y5134
    Y5131
    Y5133
    Y5121
    Z274
    S1306
    CTS7768
    S1319
    S11695
    SK2120
    FGC14126
    FGC14124
    FGC14129
    M428
    FGC14132
    FGC14133
    FGC14135
    BY2073
    Z268
    Z220
    Z209
    S25783
    CTS4065
    Z211
    Z270
    Z213
    Z218
    Z221
    Z278
    Z212
    CTS12074
    M153
    CTS10504
    CTS7870
    S21184
    CTS9050
    CTS8196
    ZZ12
    FGC20767
    FGC20750
    FGC20751
    FGC20752
    FGC20756
    FGC20758
    FGC20761
    FGC20762
    FGC20763
    FGC20766
    FGC20748
    FGC20769
    CTS7204
    CTS11087
    F1343
    CTS9952
    Z227
    CTS7759
    Z240
    Z234
    Z2563
    CTS9545
    CTS6519
    Z2567
    BY834
    BY837
    BY1134
    BY1293
    BY1356
    BY1477
    BY1485
    BY1711
    BY1779
    BY2194
    L617
    FGC14937
    FGC14936
    DF81
    Y7352
    FGC21119
    Y7356
    FGC21120
    FGC21115
    Y7354
    FGC21122
    Y7357
    FGC21124
    FGC21123
    Y7358
    Y6952
    Y6953
    Y6954
    FGC20554
    CTS7356
    PR4859
    BY1058
    BY1177
    BY1211
    BY1364
    BY1380
    BY1467
    BY1717
    BY2114
    BY2533
    BY1067
    BY2285
    Y5075
    FGC22213
    Y5076
    FGC22190
    A641
    FGC19598
    Y5058
    FGC22195
    Y5059
    FGC22205
    Y5062
    FGC22194
    FGC22193
    Y5063
    FGC22196
    Y5065
    FGC22191
    FGC22218
    Y5069
    FGC22206
    Y5070
    FGC22224
    Y5077
    FGC22203
    Y5073
    FGC22209
    FGC22225
    F3032
    A431
    Y3267
    A432
    F1928
    Z1513
    FGC11373
    FGC11395
    FGC11394
    FGC11398
    FGC11411
    FGC11378
    FGC11379
    FGC11413
    FGC11380
    The YSEQ DF27 Panel has 124 SNPs. Even though there are less DF27 SNPs than NatGeo it's probably all you need to test to find your terminal SNP and the YSEQ test is cheaper than Natgeo.
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 03-13-2016 at 04:04 PM.

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