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Thread: More aDNA - J2a

  1. #1
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    More aDNA - J2a

    Haplogroup J (x 2 samples) was found in Epipalaeolithic Georgia in the just released Pinhasi et al.

    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/15...comms9912.html

    Great news indeed !
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 11-16-2015 at 12:57 PM.

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    ANE=Caucasian theory collapsed. I am so happy that the "teal" tale end. So far nobody could argue that exsistence of "teal" as a component carried by so called PIE. Its just a native component of caucasia and associated with J2 rather then R. I dont want to say that but I was right!!!!!
    Last edited by Anabasis; 11-16-2015 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    ANE=Caucasian theory collapsed. I am so happy that the "teal" tale end. So far nobady could argue that exsistence of "teal" as a component carried by so called PIE. Its just a native component of caucasia and associated with J2 rather then R. I dont want to say that but I was right!!!!!
    A bit early to say on that really. Since EF and Teal form a cluster with WHG as the outgroup, it could be Teal was carried by eastern BMAC cultures. This isn't really different from what some other people were saying a few months ago. The unknown was that Teal seems to be heavily concentrated in the Caucasus during the Palaeolithic period.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster 1100 BC
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    What I find interesting is that the Caucasus doesn't really stand out as a place of high J diversity, J2 and J1 both seem to be notoriously uniform in this part of the world and, judging from contemporary data, the preponderance of these lineages has often been tied to founder effects across the Caucasus.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    What I find interesting is that the Caucasus doesn't really stand out as a place of high J diversity, J2 and J1 both seem to be notoriously uniform in this part of the world and, judging from contemporary data, the preponderance of these lineages has often been tied to founder effects across the Caucasus.
    We do have J2a from early Neolithic Anatolian farmers that lack the "teal" component (AFAIK) and J in an EHG context, so who knows where J, J1 or J2 originate. Any or all 3 of those haplogroups could have been widespread throughout the Caucasus, the Near East and other parts of West Eurasia since pre-Neolithic times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeroy Jenkins View Post
    We do have J2a from early Neolithic Anatolian farmers that lack the "teal" component (AFAIK) and J in an EHG context, so who knows where J, J1 or J2 originate. Any or all 3 of those haplogroups could have been widespread throughout the Caucasus, the Near East and other parts of West Eurasia since pre-Neolithic times.
    Indeed, seems to me that the more J we find the more complicated its history gets... At least that's my personal impression so far. Like I said in the other thread, this is just the beginning and we'll need a lot more ancient data from the Near East if we are to get a clear assessment of J's spread and dispersal throughout the ages.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    What I find interesting is that the Caucasus doesn't really stand out as a place of high J diversity, J2 and J1 both seem to be notoriously uniform in this part of the world and, judging from contemporary data, the preponderance of these lineages has often been tied to founder effects across the Caucasus.
    I believe they are - let me dig up some papers. Here's one of the more recent ones. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25397702
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster 1100 BC
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    A bit early to say on that really. Since EF and Teal form a cluster with WHG as the outgroup, it could be Teal was carried by eastern BMAC cultures. This isn't really different from what some other people were saying a few months ago. The unknown was that Teal seems to be heavily concentrated in the Caucasus during the Palaeolithic period.
    No way we are talking about 13 k year old ancient samples. In my opinion those teal people are endemic on the region from caucaus to iran and SCA. Thats the gene pool for "Teal". Not carried by R1b or any so called "PIE". They were native. BMAC people of course could be in same pool. What i argue is Teal should not be associeted with R1 clades. That ancient samples proved that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anabasis View Post
    No way we are talking about 13 k year old ancient samples. In my opinion those teal people are endemic on the region from caucaus to iran and SCA. Thats the gene pool for "Teal". Not carried by R1b or any so called "PIE". They were native. BMAC people of course could be in same pool. What i argue is Teal should not be associeted with R1 clades. That ancient samples proved that.
    That's exactly what I am saying. How can it be related to the spread of PIE when that language came from the steppes and either the Sintashta or Andronovo culture (I forget which) was low on Teal component. The discovery of an 13,000 ybp Caucasian hunter-gatherer carrying exorbitant amounts of Teal would only reinforce the theory that PIE was spread with EHG in the north.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster 1100 BC
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  17. #10
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    Wowwwwwww!!!

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