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Thread: Pre-Historic Agriculture (Neolithic) In The South Caucasus

  1. #1
    J Man
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    Pre-Historic Agriculture (Neolithic) In The South Caucasus

    Does anyone know if agriculture developed independently in parts of the Caucasus or did it first appear in the South Caucasus with Neolithic migrants from Anatolia or parts of the Near East?
    Last edited by J Man; 11-19-2015 at 11:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Does anyone know if agriculture developed independently in parts of the Caucasus or did it first appear in the South Caucasus with Neolithic migrants from Anatolia or parts of the Near East?
    The Neolithic of the South Caucasus is based on the crops and animals that were first domesticated further south. It was not an independent invention.

    neolithicZeder.jpg

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    I think you have access to the paper Svend Hansen, Guram Mirtskhulava,and Katrin Bastert-Lamprichs, Neolithic settlements of the 6th Millennium Cal. BCE in the Southern Caucasus (2013).

    In the south of the Republic of Georgia and in western Azerbaijan, one particular group of settlement mounds along the Kura or Chrami River is representative of an agricultural economy and way of life during the 6th millennium cal. BCE. Settlements there such as Šulaveris-Gora, Imiris-Gora, Chramis Didi-Gora and Aruchlo in Georgia, and Šomutepe and Toiretepe in Azerbaijan, represent the earliest Neolithic in the region known thus far. On the basis of similarities in pottery and house architecture from these sites, this group of settlements is referred to as the ‘Šulaveri-Šomutepe Group.... Sometimes, an older Pre-Pottery Neolithic in the western parts of Georgia is reported ..., but the re-examination of the finds no longer supports this idea.

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    I'm not too familiar with the noelithic but the Caucasus must have been close to the primary agricultural centres this been diffused with it

    Here is the current chronological of Neolithic to copper ages in the Caucasus region
    We can note the absence early Neolithic sites (? research related):

    image.jpg

    There is good book: the southern Caucasus in Prehistory
    And this recent article http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...63011013000585
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 11-20-2015 at 12:29 AM.

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  8. #5
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    The Neolithic of the South Caucasus is based on the crops and animals that were first domesticated further south. It was not an independent invention.

    neolithicZeder.jpg
    Basically then when the first Neolithic farming/agricultural communities in Eastern Anatolia were springing up around 10,000 ybp the people in the South Caucasus in places like Kotias Klde in Western Georgia where the Y-DNA haplogroup J2a male was recently found were still hunter-gatherers correct?
    Last edited by J Man; 11-20-2015 at 01:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Basically then when the first Neolithic farming/agricultural communities in Eastern Anatolia were springing up around 10,000 ybp the people in the South Caucasus in places like Kotias Klde in Western Georgia where the Y-DNA haplogroup J2a male was recently found were still hunter-gatherers correct?
    Exactly. The paper including the Kotias Klde J2a makes that absolutely clear. He was designated Caucasian Hunter Gatherer (CHG).

    Like most other people writing on the topic, I assumed (in Ancestral Journeys) that J2a arrived in the Caucasus with farming, like G2a. But no. It was there before. This is the big discovery. I'm noting it in case I get to do another edition.
    Last edited by Jean M; 11-20-2015 at 01:40 AM.

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    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Exactly. The paper including the Kotias Klde J2a makes that absolutely clear. He was designated Caucasian Hunter Gatherer (CHG).

    Like most other people writing on the topic, I assumed (in Ancestral Journeys) that J2a arrived in the Caucasus with farming, like G2a. But no. It was there before. This is the big discovery. I'm noting it in case I get to do another edition.
    Great thanks!...I am sorry if this next question sounds dumb but I am asking it because the South Caucasus is so close to Anatolia and the Northern Near East. Neolithic farming/agriculture did not originate at all on it's own in the South Caucasus in areas like Kotias Klde right? Farming/agriculture came to places like Kotias Klde either via migrations or cultural diffusion from Anatolia and the Near East correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Neolithic farming/agriculture did not originate at all on it's own in the South Caucasus in areas like Kotias Klde right? Farming/agriculture came to places like Kotias Klde either via migrations or cultural diffusion from Anatolia and the Near East correct?
    Exactly. So we are getting gradually closer to a picture of what the Y-DNA pattern was in the Near Eastern Neolithic. Obviously we need much more ancient DNA. (I keep on saying that!) But at the moment this is the picture faintly emerging:

    neolithicculturesNE.jpg

    In case my text on the image is too small: I'm guessing that J2a was not just hunting in the Caucasus, but over a wider area including the NE part of the region that took up farming earlier than the Caucasus. That would explain how there was at least a little J2a in the Anatolian Neolithic, though G2a dominated there and moved into Europe with farming. It would also explain how J2a seems to have been the key haplogroup in the Iranian and NW Indian Neolithic, as far as we can tell just from modern DNA.
    Last edited by Jean M; 11-20-2015 at 04:10 PM.

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  17. #10
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    Exactly. So we are getting gradually closer to a picture of what the Y-DNA pattern was in the Near Eastern Neolithic. Obviously we need much more ancient DNA. (I keep on saying that!) But at the moment this is the picture faintly emerging:

    neolithicculturesNE.jpg

    In case my text on the image is too small: I'm guessing that J2a was not just hunting in the Caucasus, but over a wider area including the NE part of the region that took up farming earlier than the Caucasus. That would explain how there was at least a little J2a in the Anatolian Neolithic, though G2a dominated there and moved into Europe with farming. It would also explain how J2a seems to have been the key haplogroup in the Iranian and NW Indian Neolithic, as far as we can tell just from modern DNA.
    So from what we have so far (yes we definitely need a lot more ancient DNA) it seems likely that Mesolithic hunter-gatherers bearing Y-DNA haplogroup J2a likely existed in the far North of the Near East, parts of Anatolia and the Caucasus prior to agriculture arriving in those regions. These Mesolithic hunter-gatherer Y-DNA haplogroup J2a populations then later came into contact with Neolithic farmers coming up from the South bearing Y-DNA haplogroup G2a mainly and received agriculture and other Neolithic technologies from them.

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