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Thread: Early expansion of R1a-M198/M417 in the light of aDNA evidence

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    Early expansion of R1a-M198/M417 in the light of aDNA evidence

    Together with Mathieson's updated paper, a fairly good picture of how R1a M198/M417 probably arose and spread emerges. The 3 oldest so far samples of R1a, dated between 6000-7500 ybp (4000-5500 BC) - one from Khvalynsk at the Volga (4700-4000 BC), one from Serteya near Velizh (4000 BC) and one from a sacred burial ground located at Red Deer Island in Karelia (5500-5000 BC). We can draw a triangle connecting these three points, and I guess that the area in between represents the range of R1a M420 carriers in period 6000-4000 BC. But of course carriers of M198 (TMRCA of which was ~6000 BC according to Y-Full) and of M417 (which emerged around the same time when M198 had its TMRCA) could live only in some specific part of that area. The most likely option is to go for the Volga steppe around Khvalynsk as the cradle of M198/M417:

    http://s1.postimg.org/di5tzku0d/Earl...f_R1a_M198.png



    http://s8.postimg.org/qdljaaap1/All_R1a_Samples_Map.png


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    New samples from updated version of Mathieson's paper from the Volga region change everything.

    R1a no longer seems to be a "late arrival", mainly due to the Khvalynsk sample (from ca. 4700 BC):

    Moreover, there appears to be a continuous presence of R1a in this region from 4700 BC to 200 BC:

    Map: http://s8.postimg.org/p4z1arxk3/Volga_Region.png

    Last edited by Tomenable; 11-21-2015 at 02:04 AM.

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    The big questions that remain unsolved are:

    1) when did R1a arrive to eastern Europe? Kostentki (36 kya) shows no sign of "ANE"- if it even existed back then. So r1a could have arrived considerably later- as late as the early Mesolithic

    2) how far west did R1a exist before the Bronze Age ?

    3) exactly where did the R1a of CWC expand from ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravetto-Danubian View Post
    The big questions that remain unsolved are:

    1) when did R1a arrive to eastern Europe? Kostentki (36 kya) shows no sign of "ANE"- if it even existed back then. So r1a could have arrived considerably later- as late as the early Mesolithic

    2) how far west did R1a exist before the Bronze Age ?

    3) exactly where did the R1a of CWC expand from ?
    The 38,700-36,200 ybp Kostenki by definition could not have ANE. ANE=MA1, 13000 years after Kostenki. Both Kostenki and MA1 have part common ancestry, but K14 also has a component that that common ancestry merged into.

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    I've made a similar map showing expansion of R1b, even though the number of currently available Ancient samples of R1b is lower than the number of R1a samples, and the picture of its early expansion is still more blurred. However, what is remarkable is that the oldest known samples of R1b - if not counting Iberian Neolithic V88 - are from exactly the same peoples and cultures, as the oldest known samples of R1a - namely from EHGs (burial at Sok River near the Volga, close to Samara) and from Khvalynsk culture (sample from Khvalynsk at the Volga River):

    http://s1.postimg.org/r1lbqot7h/Early_R1b_expansion.png



    It also does not seem from currently available samples, that R1b M269/L23 expanded first and R1a M198/M417 later. Rather it seems, that the beginning of territorial (not demographic) expansion of both haplogroups from the steppe was roughly at the same time.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 11-22-2015 at 09:20 PM.

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