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Thread: L1029 in Britain?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baltimore1937 View Post
    I tried looking up Kollinski, allegedly in my Springer line in Medieval times (a wife from Silesia). But I only got back some words in red with 3 exclamation marks, ha ha.
    The database I cited requires exact use of Polish diacritical marks. If you can't enter those, you can use ? for a single letter and * for multiple letters.

    The Koliński surname (note the accent over the n) gets 2685 hits, with the most near Warsaw, Bydgoszcz, and Gdańsk:
    Wa:310, BP:7, BB:10, By:254, Ci:21, Cz:14, El:43, Gd:196, Go:46, JG:38, Kl:117, Ka:98, Ki:29, Kn:147, Ko:5, Kr:37, Ks:2, Lg:60, Lu:17, Ło:81, Łd:149, NS:4, Ol:25, Op:28, Os:2, Pl:82, Pt:1, Pł:75, Po:143, Ra:21, Rz:3, Sd:7, Sr:134, Sk:70, Sł:51, Sz:154, Tb:16, Ta:4, To:55, Wb:28, Wł:14, Wr:51, ZG:36

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    The database I cited requires exact use of Polish diacritical marks. If you can't enter those, you can use ? for a single letter and * for multiple letters.

    The Koliński surname (note the accent over the n) gets 2685 hits, with the most near Warsaw, Bydgoszcz, and Gdańsk:
    Wa:310, BP:7, BB:10, By:254, Ci:21, Cz:14, El:43, Gd:196, Go:46, JG:38, Kl:117, Ka:98, Ki:29, Kn:147, Ko:5, Kr:37, Ks:2, Lg:60, Lu:17, Ło:81, Łd:149, NS:4, Ol:25, Op:28, Os:2, Pl:82, Pt:1, Pł:75, Po:143, Ra:21, Rz:3, Sd:7, Sr:134, Sk:70, Sł:51, Sz:154, Tb:16, Ta:4, To:55, Wb:28, Wł:14, Wr:51, ZG:36
    I'm not very certain of that name, anyway. The trees at Ancestry don't all agree with each other. Hopefully the Springer male line is accurate. Most trees show Johanna von (or of) Kollinski in Silesia (Schlesien). She may have been the daughter of one of the Prussian barons who took over Silesia back then. But I haven't found her parents.
    Last edited by Baltimore1937; 08-05-2016 at 10:46 AM.

  4. #23
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    I found this by doing a Google search:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=y7...0slavs&f=false.
    The Rugians were considered East Germanic. However, Rugii is also associated with the rani tribe, who was Slavic. By the end of the millennium (1000 CE), the area in question would have been unquestionably Slavic.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardo View Post
    I found this by doing a Google search:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=y7...0slavs&f=false.
    The Rugians were considered East Germanic. However, Rugii is also associated with the rani tribe, who was Slavic. By the end of the millennium (1000 CE), the area in question would have been unquestionably Slavic.
    Helmold:
    "Beyond the calmly flowing Odere, and beyond various Pomeranorum peoples, on the Western side we come to the country of the Winulorum, those namely that are called Tholenzi or Redarii. Their city is named Rethre (http://www.jassa.org/?p=1361), a hive of idolatry. There a great temple was built to honor idols, among whom the greatest is Redegast. His statue has ornaments of gold and his bed is bedecked with scarlet. The town itself has nine gates and is surrounded by a deep lake. A wooden bridge is used to traverse it but which is only made available to those who bring offerings or those seeking answers/oracular advice.

    (...)

    Rani that is Rugiani are a mighty Slavorum people who alone [among the Slavs] has a king; without talking with these people, no public matter may be undertaken for they are afraid of them [this people] on account of the favor that they [Rani] have with the Gods or rather demons, who they worship. These are the peoples of the Winulorum (*) who are spread out among the different regions and provinces and islands of the sea. All those peoples who are dedicated to worshipping idols, always on the move and moving about, engaged in sea piracy.

    (...)

    After having traversed many Slavorum countries, they came to these who are called Rani or Rugiani and who live in the middle of the sea. There is the hive of errors, there is the capital of idolatry (...) There all the Slavorum come to seek answers/auguries, there they send offerings every year. Merchants who happen to arrive at these places do not receive permission to trade [to buy/sell] until they first make offerings to this God of some expensive items from their merchandise – only then can they display their wares publicly in the market. Their priest they honor no less than [their] king. From that time, when they first fell away from the faith, this superstition has lasted among the Rani to this day.

    (...)

    These Rani who are also called by some Runi, they are a cruel nation, living in the middle of the sea, and especially given to idolatry. They lead all the Slavs/are the most important of all the Slavorum, they have a king and a most famous temple. Thus, on account of the special veneration of this temple, in which veneration they take first place, they impose their yoke on others but themselves refuse it, being safe by reason of the inaccessibility of the place [i.e., their location]; and the people that their arms conquer they force to pay tribute to temple. They respect their archpriest more than their king and where he/fates [archpriest after determining the fates?] tells them so they send their armies. After received victory they take the gold and the silver to the treasury of their God, dividing the rest amongst themselves.

    (...)

    Among Slavorum Gods of different shapes the one that shines brightest is Zuantevith [Svantevit], the God of the country of the Rugianorum, as more accurate/successful in his answers [i.e., as an oracle]. In comparison with Him, the Others they treat as if they be demigods. Therefore, to show special veneration for Him, they sacrifice, usually once a year, one Christian chosen by fate. Besides this, from all of the Slavorum countries they send there [to Ruegen/Rugia] offerings such as they determine [in those countries or maybe at the Svantevit temple?]. With special veneration and diligence do they care to serve the temple itself. For they do not easily permit oaths and do not permit people to enter the circle of the temple even when enemies should come.

    (...)

    In those days Waldemarus [the first], the Danorum King assembled a great army and many ships, so as to set out to the country of the Rugianorum, which he desired to bring under his power. He was helped by dukes Kazemarus and Buggezlavus, the Pomeranorum dukes as well as by Pribislavus the Obotritorum duke – for the duke [Saxon] ordered the Sclavis to help the Danorum King, wherever he should turn his arm to conquer foreign nations. And the Danorum King was lucky and, with a strong hand, he established his rule over the Rugianorum and so as to save their lives, they gave everything to him that he demanded. He ordered then to bring forth that certain ancient statue of Zuantevith [Svantevit], which was worshipped by all the Sclavorum peoples and ordered to put a leash/rope on his neck and to pull it between the warriors [his warrior] to be witnessed by the eyes of the Sclavorum and after having it chopped to pieces to toss into the fire. He destroyed too the temple with all of its holy relics and looted its rich treasury. He ordered the Slavs too to rid themselves of their errors in which they were born and to worship the true God."

    http://www.jassa.org/?p=1460

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...tically-Slavic

    * Adam of Bremen:
    "Slavania is a very large province of Germaniae inhabited by the Winulis who at one time were called Wandali. It is said to be ten times larger than our Saxonia, especially if you count [as part of Slavia] Boemiam and the expanses across the Oddoram, the Polanos, because they differ neither in appearance nor in language. Although this region is very rich in arms, men and crops, it is shut on all sides by fast barriers of wooded mountains and rivers. In breadth it extends from south to north, that is, from the Albia River to the Scythicum Sea. And in length it appears to stretch from our diocese of Hammaburgensi, where it begins, toward the east and, spread in boundless expanses, reaches clear to Bulgariam, Ungariam and Graeciam.

    (...)

    For the one, that is the Oddoram, tending toward the north, passes through the midst of the Winulorum peoples."

    http://www.jassa.org/?p=1788
    Last edited by Waldemar; 08-05-2016 at 01:48 PM.

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  7. #25
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    I was reading that there is R1a1a cluster in Norway, Maybe these are descendants of the follows of Harald Hardrada, who spend time in exile with the Kievan Rus, when he went back to Norway to claim the throne of Norway, no doubt he took many warriors with him, also, this could be how come there is R1a1a got to Norway, or/and Slave trading? and ultimately how this Haplogroup got to the UK? any thoughts?

    Incidentally I think Harald Hardrada was buried in Trondheim; Mary Church until 12th century, this is the exact area where the cluster is.
    Last edited by [email protected]; 08-25-2016 at 02:19 PM. Reason: addition

  8. #26
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    I have Arlogia Vladimirovna, born in Kiev, Kievan Rus, dates conflicting but c.1011 - 1046. She married Rognvald Brusesson who was in temporary exile in Kiev. Otherwise he was the Jarl of Orkney. She became Countess of Orkney. The Bruce line of Scotland descends from them, via Normandy. But don't ask me to prove all of this, ha ha.
    Last edited by Baltimore1937; 08-26-2016 at 07:34 PM.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I was reading that there is R1a1a cluster in Norway, Maybe these are descendants of the follows of Harald Hardrada, who spend time in exile with the Kievan Rus, when he went back to Norway to claim the throne of Norway, no doubt he took many warriors with him, also, this could be how come there is R1a1a got to Norway, or/and Slave trading? and ultimately how this Haplogroup got to the UK? any thoughts?
    R1a was present in Norway since Bronze Age and was introduced by people belonging to Battle-Axe culture of a Corded Ware cultural horizon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    However, in the most likely scenario R1a people were some time later pushed North to Norway and Northern Sweden by R1b folk. Therefore, they didn't contribute much to proto-Germanic Jastorf Culture and Migration Period. Otherwise, it should be present in higher numbers in Southern Europe and Continent.

    R1a started to spread throughout whole Scandinavia probably around Vendel Period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendel_Period and expanded outside Scandinavia with Vikings during Viking Age: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age . So it got to Britain just around 8th-11th century for the most part.

    So as you can see, Scandinavian R1a is mostly pretty different from Balto-Slavic kinds and only distantly related to them.

    I also tend to think that "Slavic" clades of R1a which sometimes pop-up in Norway and Sweden were mostly introduced by Germans (what's sometimes evident going by surnames like Heitmann or Fleischer) and by Slavic craftsmen or mercenaries, rather than slaves. Slaves had a lot less opportunities to left living descendants, although I can imagine some certain cases.

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  11. #28
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    There are two different R1a clusters or clades in Norway/Sweden/Finland. The earliest arrival was my L664. Then came the Germanic Z283 > Z284. Z284 is there, but earlier branched off from Z283. In my little subgroup within L664 is a person from southwestern Finland.

  12. #29
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    Apparently YP4647 formed 1500 years ago (according to Yfull). Assuming these numbers don't change as we get more samples, then how could L1029 get to England by 500AD? Anglo Saxons?
    Last edited by Brent.B; 10-02-2016 at 06:12 AM.

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent.B View Post
    Apparently YP4647 formed 1500 years ago (according to Yfull). Assuming these numbers don't change as we get more samples, then how could L1029 get to England by 500AD? Anglo Saxons?
    Does anyone have any thoughts on how reliable this 1500 year estimate is?

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