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Thread: The Tribe Within- Search of DNA Tribe R1b-L513

  1. #11
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    Omitted

    ...and would this also fit into related groupings in Scotland? I guess it's that old, right?

  2. #12
    Registered Users
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    Location
    Belgium
    Ethnicity
    Menapii
    Nationality
    Belgian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a2c1b1a
    mtDNA (M)
    T2b

    Belgium European Union
    Here we are... A third Swedish there: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php...514&star=false

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to BdCdL For This Useful Post:

     Mag Uidhir 6 (04-06-2016)

  4. #13
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    Olympic Coast
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    100% Mutt mostly Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L513/Z16337

    United States of America Ireland Scotland Germany Imperial
    Given the Menapii trading/raiding outposts in Ireland, Man, Wales and Scotland, I'd venture to guess that a mix of S5668/A7/Z16340 filled all those positions. Rathlin island proved DF21 presence far earlier than previously thought. I suspect L513 bones are just a matter of time to discovery. That is a firm dream for us!

  5. #14
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    York, Maine
    Ethnicity
    Western Europe
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    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF27>ZZ12>CTS3919

    United States of America Flanders France Germany England Wales
    Hello Group,

    I am descended from Jacobus Lefebure who was born about 1655, married, and had children in Lauwe, West-Flanders in the 1680s. He died in Lauwe in 1733. I have ordered the Big-Y test from Family Tree DNA, but in addition have run my FTDNA Y-111 numbers through the NEVGEN haplo predictor. At different times, NEVGEN predicted that I am R1b L21>DF13>ZZ10, and R1b L21>S1026>Z16886.

    I've been reading that L21 most likely is Celtic, and it is interesting that my most distant ancestor Jacobus Lefebure lived in Lauwe, now part of Menen, an area where the Menapii tribe lived.

    I thought that you might be interested in another potential Celtic L21 from West-Flanders - I will receive my Big-Y results in a few weeks. FTDNA # 481082.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jtlefebvre For This Useful Post:

     Mag Uidhir 6 (05-07-2016),  Olivier C (05-29-2016)

  7. #15
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    Brugge, Belgium
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    Belgium Flanders
    Dear BdCdL! I was just reading the Menapian Quest by Norman Mongan when I came across your very interesting post. Research into our early history in Belgium, the Belgae of late iron age and Roman days, and the Salian Franks of the early Middle Ages, is a topic I have been fascinated with for a while now.

    I am very glad that the Menapian clade has been uncovered by your efforts. I suspected that the whole southern area of West-Flanders (the Pagus Mempiscus) and most of East-Flanders, where your family originated, could show more L-21+ than we are shown now from the Brabant project. Norman Mongan for one relates about villages in the vicinity of Ghent which up to a couple of centuries ago were noted for having predominately red-haired people (red hair is found in all three Celtic branches, although it is most common in the R1b-L21 branch). Of course also the many archeological finds in the area support this, next to hints in toponymy and family names (Menen, Ménève, Minnebrugghe...).

    (The Chauci, who traveled along with the Menapii to settle on the Irish westcoast, are btw probably associated with R1b-S21, which is still very present in Flanders. There is toponymic evidence for their settlements in the middle of Menapian territory (example: Kalken) which is another pointer to the fact that these tribes seem to have gotten along pretty well.)

    Regarding the presence of the Menapian subclade and other R1b-L21+ in Sweden, if you look at the maps drawn by Frithjof Nanssen and Konrad Miller based on descriptions of Pomponius Mela in 44 AD which you can view both here on wikipedia.
    on the Scythian coast, east to the mound of the Vistula there are "Belcae" living along the coast. According to Pytheas these were inhabitants from the British isles (we know that Belgae -the Atrebates for one- had sizable settlements there) that settled there. Possibly attracted by the amber trade? Just to show that slavery wasn't the only source of Celtic DNA in and around Scandinavia.

    Regarding the sensitivity of the issue in Flanders, I hope you do not form your opinion on a loud and often embarrassing minority of "internet separatist militants". The Celtic past is pretty evident to many, we have groups of young and less young people re-enacting the Celtic past, such as the people from Gallische Hoeve in Destelbergen who rebuilt a historically correct Menapian dwelling, and friends of mine from the coastal south who re-enact as the Morini, a tribe closely related to the Menapii. Also, I recently read a text from the 9th century on the invading Norsemen, and it stated there that the Flemish people consisted at that time of Menapii and Suevi. Remember that Tiberius Caesar transplanted about 40000 Suevi here to live along the Menapii, an amount about as big as the Menapian tribe itself. Placenames like Zwevezele and Zwevegem refer to them.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Olivier C For This Useful Post:

     Mag Uidhir 6 (06-02-2016)

  9. #16
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    London
    Ethnicity
    British
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    English of Irish descent

    I am interested in purchasing the book by A M Barrett - DNA Tribe R1B - L513. Does it have an ISBN number, please? Thank you.

  10. #17
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    English of Irish descent

    PS. I am interested in tracing information concerning the Quinns of Antrim - family members on my mother's side - and would appreciate any information or links available. Thank you.

  11. #18
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    London
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    British
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    English of Irish descent

    Excuse me asking, but is the surname related to the late Marcel François Marie Joseph Lefebvre; founder of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) circa 1970 - Switzerland?

  12. #19
    Registered Users
    Posts
    47
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    Location
    Olympic Coast
    Ethnicity
    100% Mutt mostly Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L513/Z16337

    United States of America Ireland Scotland Germany Imperial
    James,

    Send e an email at [email protected] I can send you his 2015 updated copy in pdf.

    Cheers
    Brad

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