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Thread: Haplogroup BY3146 BY3127

  1. #1
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    Haplogroup BY3146 BY3127

    Anyone on this board have information on this haplogroup? I am R-S691* and am seeking others whose terminal SNP is R-S691; and more information on BY3146 and BY 3127. Any help?

  2. #2
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    R BY25839

    Scotland
    Quote Originally Posted by davidbrady View Post
    Anyone on this board have information on this haplogroup? I am R-S691* and am seeking others whose terminal SNP is R-S691; and more information on BY3146 and BY 3127. Any help?
    I am in the same boat S691* ... wondering whether to wait for s'thing to evolve.
    It would be good to know how many are in this category. Don't want to do more expensive test to learn nothing!
    Gordon Lawrie

  3. #3
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    R1b L1065/S744/S756
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    T2b-T16362C

    Canada Scotland Ireland
    Pretty sure this is a MacGregor SNP marker. Anyone else able to confirm this??

  4. #4
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    R L1065 - S691>A850

    Scotland Northern Ireland England Germany Poland Czech Republic
    On the Big Tree http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=9 , this group has Alexander, Patterson, Quigley, Gardner, Carr, Henderson, Anderson, McWhannel and Brady - MacGregors are not in this group.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to bobp For This Useful Post:

     Peter MacDonald (08-09-2017)

  6. #5
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    Good to hear from you Gordon! Very few in our group. Have you had a look at the Big Tree at ytree.com? It shows the people in our group. Where did your ancestors originate? You may want to consider uploading your information to that site. Alex Williamson, the owner of the site, will place you on the tree and you will be able to see other like me who are in your same group.

  7. #6
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    Buchanans are also S691+, but are not BY3146 BY3127+. We are all part of R-S691. GJLawrie share the BY3146 BY3127 SNP.

  8. #7
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    A new haplogroup has been formed from BY3146 BY3127. It is BY-25836 on FTDNA.

  9. #8
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    Hi David, I see we have progressed from the R.S691 with big Y...and we are both R. S691-BY3146-BY25839
    Lots of Buchanans, Alexanders, and a few Macgregors.
    My family are from Kinross/Fife and I have a paper trail to John Lawrie 1570s possibly to David Lawrie 1550s
    So always in this area and Perthshire til 1850s.. the estate we held was Drunzie.... bonnet lairds!

  10. #9
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    R-L1065>S744>S691*
    mtDNA
    T2b19a*

    I just did a search for R-S691, found this thread and joined Anthrogenica to talk. Pat Tagert here. I'm also the original Z13851. Greg Magoon noticed the SNP in my newly published Personal Genome Project results in late 2013. A few months later Jim Wilson released Y chromosome coordinates for SNPs that he had recently discovered, including coordinates for R-S691, so Z13851 and S691 were published at about the same time, which is why you see S691 and Z13851 in the Y chromosome tree. They are synonymous. Go to Alex Williamson's Big Tree to view (links not allowed here)
    I don't know if anyone remembers anything about this at all, but I organized an impromptu ad hoc test group at yseq.net in early 2014, comprised of about a dozen men with Y-STR haplotypes that looked promising for R-S691*, and about 3-4 came back derived. One of them was a Buchanan, and as you know, the Buchanan surname has now been widely sampled for S691. As mentioned early in this thread, quite a few surnames are now known to contain clusters of S691+, including many from the southwestern Lowlands, the Strathclyde and Argyll. My sense has long been that Glasgow (Alt Clut) is effectively the geographic center of this SNP, but that's just a guess, and I'm open to discussion about that.
    What I wanted to discuss is the asterisk, which implies that there are no variants detected downstream of S691. Using my whole genome data, I extracted about a dozen "private SNPs" from the data, and reviewed them with Thomas at yseq.net. About half of them were eliminated as problematic for Sanger sequencing for one reason or another, so we settled on four (? if I remember correctly). Following the 10% variance rule at FTDNA, I have dozens (at least) of STR matches at FTDNA on 37 STRs, dozens of matches at 67 STRs, but only 11 matches at 111 STRs. Of the many dozens (100+?) matches at FTDNA on 37, 67 or 111 STRs, I have only one very close match, and that is to a Taggart. With 6 proven generations in my pedigree (colonial American), and 5 in his (also American, no immigrant ancestor yet identified), we find no pedigree matches, so we surmise that the most recent common ancestor was prior to immigration of either line to the American colonies. We mismatch on only 3 out of 111 markers, and one of those is YCA IIa/b, where he has a RcloH event - I have 19-24 and he has 19-19. So we are a very close match. Some of my nearest matches at 111 STRs at FTDNA are derived for other SNPs downstream of S691 (for example, FGC10125), so haplotypes that are very close can be deceiving.

    So my Taggart match tested the SNPs downstream of S691 that I had reviewed with Thomas at Yseq. He was negative for (2? don't remember, but derived for (2?). I'm wasting my morning away, so I'll look it up later. You can find our FTDNA data on the first page of the FTDNA R-L1335 project > results > colorized
    Just search for Tagert or Taggart on that page. We are both A16873+, and that SNP, along with the several other private SNPs tested are available for testing at Yseq.org. My guess is that it is not common, so no way of knowing whether other R-S691* men might be derived. My profile has never been added to the Big Tree, I suppose because my data was derived from whole genome data through the Personal Genome Project, and BED files and BAM files were never made available to the volunteer participants in that project. I don't get it, because my VCF file has proved to be entirely reliable, but for whatever reason, without a Big Y test, my results aren't published anywhere.

    I just wanted other R-S691* men to know that the asterisk doesn't necessarily mean that there are other SNPs downstream of S91 that have received little or no attention, and that most men are certainly likely to have at least a few SNPs downstream of S691. It's a matter of finding the needle in a haystack without spending big bucks to do it. The only men who match my STR haplotype on 111 STRs at FTDNA (10% variance rule), who have not been tested downstream of S744, are two Davidsons. At the Davidson surname project, you will find that most participants have done very little SNP testing. So i have no way of knowing whether or not they are even S691+.

    This post is just an FYI for other R-S691* men. I hope it all makes sense to those on this thread.

  11. #10
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    Hey Pat, I'm going to assume you're a descendant of James Tagert of SC/KY/TN/AL. My mom and I are too. I'd ask her to ask her brothers to test but they don't care about genealogy lol. We're descended from James son John, grandson, Elijah.
    Last edited by flower; 06-10-2018 at 03:48 PM. Reason: typo

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