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Thread: Bashkirs J2a

  1. #1
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    Post Bashkirs J2a

    THE DNA-GENEALOGY OF BASHKIRS TRIBES — 5. THE DESCENDANTS OF MUYTENS (HURRIANS-MITANNI)

    B.A.Muratov, R.R.Suyunov, P.M.Arsanov


    We have previously noted[1], the presence among Sheshey-Usergan (шәшәй-үçәргән) ‘ara’ (The ‘ara’ mean ‘a little family clan’ in Bashkir language ¬— note B.M.), the descendants of medieval Muyten people, from subclade J2a[2].

    Bashkirs from Usergan clan have the following tribal attributes:
    Battle Cry — Muyten (the name of an ancestor)
    Tamga — Koyoshkan (Tail)
    The sacred tree — Mishar (Rowan)
    Sacred bird — Torna (Crane).

    At the present time have been additionally DNA-tested and recorded in genealogies (shejere) Bashkirs from ara — Apandi-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Beshey-Usergan, which also they turned out to be carriers of subclade J2a.



    Read an article full, click here
    https://www.academia.edu/19838521/Mu...2015_P.950-963
    Last edited by Bulat; 12-26-2015 at 05:23 PM.
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  3. #2
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    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Matches:

    The descendants of HURRIANS-MITANNI - потомки ХУРРИТОВ-МАТИЕН
    284210 Ismailov Chechen Republic, Nashhoy-H'aybahoy gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-17 11 16 11 15 12 31 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 13 19 15 36-37 12 9
    274415 Aliev Chechen Republic, Pkh'amtoy-Asdar gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 31 12-13-16-17 10 9 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9
    271774 Musaev Chechen Republic, Nashhoy-H'ilhoy gar Russian Federation J-Z7671
    12 23 14 10 14-18 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 11 9 19-22 14 14 19 15 36-37 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 17 8 13 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
    410611 Apandi-Usergan Bashkir Uraz (XIX), Ural, Baish at., Apandi-Usergan clan Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-19 11 14 13 14 11 31
    297010 Khadzhimuradov Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-Ashakhan gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 30
    297013 Zaypulaev Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-Ashakhan gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 30 18 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 31 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 16 8 14 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
    333332 Elmurzaev Chechen Republic, C'esi-Suntar gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-19 11 16 11 14 12 31
    321769 Avtarkhanov Chechen Republic, Chubakhkinaroy-G'uzar gar Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 14-20 11 16 11 14 12 30 17 9-9 11 11 26 15 21 32 12-13-16-17 10 10 19-22 14 14 19 15 35-36 12 9 11 7 15-15 8 12 10 8 10 9 12 17-17 14 10 12 12 17 8 14 23 20 14 12 11 13 10 13 12 11
    410632 Beshey-Usergan Bashkir Ishkan (XIX), Imangulovo, Beshey-Usergan clan Russian Federation J-M172
    12 23 14 10 15-19 11 15 12 13 11 29
    410626 Abathi-Usergan Bashkir Aqbash (XVIII), bashkirs, Abathi-Usergan clan Russian Federation -
    12 24 14 10 14-19 11 14 13 15 11 32
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  5. #3
    J Man
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    Interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing this information. So the Usergan clan among the Bashkirs has turned out to all belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?

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     Bulat (12-26-2015)

  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing this information. So the Usergan clan among the Bashkirs has turned out to all belong to Y-DNA haplogroup J2a?
    Usergan are a big clan in Bashkirs, and with many ara.
    Usergan by DNA-test have many ethnic components.

    On today information:
    Only Sheshey-Usergan, Beshey-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Apandi-Usergan have J2a subclade.
    Surash-Usergan and Nagyman-Usergan- - N1c-L1034.
    Bure-Usergan - R1b (cluster is unknown).
    Ayiu-Usergan - I (cluster is unknown).
    Aqsak-Usergan - R1a-Y2632.
    Y-DNA: R1a-Z93, Z94+, L342.2+, Z2124+, Z2125+, Z2123+, SUR86+, SUR250+, SUR22+ Sakes-Dinlings line
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    Our group in Facebook: Hidden Content
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    Our site: Hidden Content
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  9. #5
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulat View Post
    Usergan are a big clan in Bashkirs, and with many ara.
    Usergan by DNA-test have many ethnic components.

    On today information:
    Only Sheshey-Usergan, Beshey-Usergan, Abathi-Usergan and Apandi-Usergan have J2a subclade.
    Surash-Usergan and Nagyman-Usergan- - N1c-L1034.
    Bure-Usergan - R1b (cluster is unknown).
    Ayiu-Usergan - I (cluster is unknown).
    Aqsak-Usergan - R1a-Y2632.
    Right and as you mention above there are 3 Y-DNA haplogroup J2a results from the Usergan clan so far. None of them look to be that closely related overall either at 12 markers.

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     Bulat (12-26-2015)

  11. #6
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    Off-top:

    I must will write 10 messages, then i can private message.

    Hello! ... the questions about Usergan J2a
    Hello!

    No problem. Of course, ok!

    Sincerely Bulat.

    P.S. I can write an answer - later, in private. But after 10 messages in this forum, because it rules in this site.
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  12. #7
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    Hm, how on earth do you know these guys are Hurrian or Mitannian in origin? If you have any Hurrian or Mitannian data, I'd like to know about it.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  14. #8
    J Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Hm, how on earth do you know these guys are Hurrian or Mitannian in origin? If you have any Hurrian or Mitannian data, I'd like to know about it.
    It is just a hypothesis most likely.

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  16. #9
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    J2a in Bashkirs may be pre historic influence of HG J2a. It doesnt mean that they were descendents of Hurrians or Mittianis. In my opinion you need to test some full sequence test and found out the TMRCA years of J2a subsclades in bashkirs. STR matches may mislead you also. (On the ther hand mittianis are probably R1a or R1b carrier rather then J2a)

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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    It is just a hypothesis most likely.
    Well, judging from the matches, I'd say it's equally likely their ancestors came from the Caucasus, they even could've been Nakh speakers. Nothing really warrants a Hurrian or Mitannian connection at this stage TBPH.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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     Anabasis (12-26-2015),  Bulat (12-26-2015)

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