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Thread: Interpretation of 2 Gedmatch Tests

  1. #1
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    Interpretation of 2 Gedmatch Tests

    Hi Guys,

    I unfortunately don't know my direct ancestry on either side of the family. I would love to receive input on my autosomal results from Eurogenes EU & MDLP K23b. My Y-DNA subclade is R-Z8, most frequent in the Netherlands. If anyone is familiar with Dr. McDonald's biogeographical analysis, that would also be helpful, but not required.

    Eurogenes EU:
    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 DK + English + NL + West_&_Central_German @ 2.062315
    2 DK + English + West_&_Central_German + West_&_Central_German @ 2.105624
    3 DK + English + English + West_&_Central_German @ 2.130803
    4 DK + English + NL + NL @ 2.173721
    5 DK + DK + English + West_&_Central_German @ 2.225961

    MDLP K23b
    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 CEU + Dutch + Dutch + South_German @ 0.738308
    2 British + Dutch + Dutch + South_German @ 0.743375
    3 Dutch + Dutch + English_Kent_GBR + South_German @ 0.788077
    4 British + Dutch + German-Volga + North_German @ 0.803757
    5 Dutch + German-Volga + North_German + Welsh @ 0.805491

  2. #2
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    I would wager a guess that you have a predominantly NW Euro heritage from pre- or post-Colonial mixing of mostly British and NW continental Europe (Benelux, Germany, N. France). In my opinion, however, it is still a little difficult to pin-point regional ethnicity with these admixture tools (or AuDNA tests at big DNA companies) as it is common to see results such as Irish showing as much affinity with Dutch or Germans as with Scottish or Welsh. This might be explained by recent studies such as "The People of the British Isles" which suggests minor regional differences but otherwise an underlying common ancestry except for more outlier areas such as Orcadian Islands. Or, it could be that current testing methods are not able to detect true differences between certain populations yet.

    One other caveat would be that some testers and test-developers, such as the creator of the MDLP 23B and Ultimate 13, do not recommend that certain tests be compared due to different target populations / algorithms. However, I can share that I interpreted my Eurogenes K13 and K15 to be fairly compatible with the MDLP K23B and my family records thus far:

    Eurogenes K13:
    Single mode: SE English
    4-pop mode: SE English x 3 + W. German

    Eurogenes K15:

    Single mode: SE English
    4-pop mode: W. Scottish x 2 x W. Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia

    MDLP K23B:
    Single mode: Belgian (23andMe) / English (FTDNA)
    4 pop mode: Belgian, Dutch, English_Cornwall & German Volga)

    With my results, you can see how SE English vs. Cornwall vs. W. Scottish show up depending on pop mode or calculator and how a British person can get a Scandinavian result such as Norwegian if balanced by a more SW pop such as Spanish. Therefore, if I wanted to use these tools to gain admittance to a Highlands Ceilidh dance or English Morris dance, I might could go either way. I used to assume this was primarily due to being a fairly admixed American. However, I saw an English from England ladies' results recently and they varied, imo, even more significantly from mostly Irish / "Celtic" to mostly Norwegian & Scandinavian / "Germanic" on the same calculator between K13 and K15 level.

    Any calculator gurus / challengers to my "NW Euro" - British / continental Euro mix guess out there?

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  4. #3
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    I would not base anything on the four Oracle results for an unknown mix because of the kinds of things AnnieD is pointing out. I know most of my ancestry and these often have only one or maybe none of my actual populations/regions listed. I would rather look at the actual admixture results plus the single oracle list as well as maybe the mixed mode results. The 4mix tool is pretty good if you want to get some ideas with four populations as it does not require every population to be 25% exactly.

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  6. #4
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    Yeah, things aren't always what they seem. K36 gave me a huge amount of Italian, for example (11.71%). In historical reality, that may really mean Carpathian Basin, before the Kelts and Italics went their separate ways. I'm not the only one with that particular problem. And Volga-Ural probably refers to the two rivers at the base of the Ural mountains, meaning where R1a-L664 may have begun. Noth Caucusus may refer to the Maikop empire. I don't know why K36 gave me such a small Fenno-Scandia (8.61%). I am 3/8 Norwegian.

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  8. #5
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    If I understand David's notes on K36, it is meant for analyzing targeted parts of chromosomes down to the half segment, more than using it the way most of the calculators are used. I am in the process of doing that now for the minority portions of my admixture. It is an interesting process. I am thinking of starting a thread on what I am learning as it may help others or maybe others will point out things I can try or the folly of my thinking/conclusions.

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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    If I understand David's notes on K36, it is meant for analyzing targeted parts of chromosomes down to the half segment, more than using it the way most of the calculators are used. I am in the process of doing that now for the minority portions of my admixture. It is an interesting process. I am thinking of starting a thread on what I am learning as it may help others or maybe others will point out things I can try or the folly of my thinking/conclusions.
    Keen to see how you go with that. If you don't mind me asking, when you refer to minority portions, are you meaning the portion that dosen't show on your admixture chart but pops up in your chromosomes' reading?

  11. #7
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    Thank you guys for your answers. My results were a bit puzzling. 15/16 of my great-grandparents' surnames are UK-derived, yet I showed 0% British Isles admixture on FTDNA. My maternal grandfather is also R-L21, most common in the British Isles. I realize that the UK is the original land of immigrant invaders, but it was surprising nonetheless to look much more like a north-central European than a Brit. I'm fine with it of course, but it sort of shook up my historical national identity a bit. It may be due to the amount of admixture I inherited specifically from my parents in varying proportions, but I think there's definitely something to the idea that my family isn't as British as previously thought. 3 of my ancestors claimed that my family was "Dutch" (their word for German) in the late 19th century, but we have only ever found British surnames. Maybe they knew something we don't...

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  13. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bramoan View Post
    Keen to see how you go with that. If you don't mind me asking, when you refer to minority portions, are you meaning the portion that dosen't show on your admixture chart but pops up in your chromosomes' reading?
    Close, but a little different than that - Of my five family members to which I am putting this scrutiny, and in K36 terms, all of us get a score in the primary admixture results for Basque, Central Euro, East Central Euro, Eastern Euro, Fennoscandian, French, Iberian, Italian, North Atlantic, North Sea, and West Med. Four of us have an East Balkan score. I then added East Med to this list though only three of us have a score for it because I decided it belonged in the list. These 13 populations make up most of all five of our admixtures, which makes sense since we are all some combination of British/Scottish/Irish and German/French, primarily. So, the other 23 populations I am researching to find 600 SNP sections of chromosomes (actually, most of the segments I am targeting are larger than this) where the sum of those 23 is greater than 20% when the noticeably admixed area in the screen painting and/or by-seg analysis indicates that it could be some remnant of an ancestor. I then run a "target" DIY test against that section to put the K36 hammer onto the targeted area and see if it "holds up" as something interesting.

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  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBW1986 View Post
    Thank you guys for your answers. My results were a bit puzzling. 15/16 of my great-grandparents' surnames are UK-derived, yet I showed 0% British Isles admixture on FTDNA. My maternal grandfather is also R-L21, most common in the British Isles. I realize that the UK is the original land of immigrant invaders, but it was surprising nonetheless to look much more like a north-central European than a Brit. I'm fine with it of course, but it sort of shook up my historical national identity a bit. It may be due to the amount of admixture I inherited specifically from my parents in varying proportions, but I think there's definitely something to the idea that my family isn't as British as previously thought. 3 of my ancestors claimed that my family was "Dutch" (their word for German) in the late 19th century, but we have only ever found British surnames. Maybe they knew something we don't...
    Just for an example, my mom is about 50% English/Scottish/Irish and about 50% German/French and lots of Colonial USA heritage. Part of it is Virginia and another is PA "Dutch", which as you noted really is German. Here are here EU V2 K15 test results:

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 34.42
    2 Atlantic 24.73
    3 West_Med 14.1
    4 Baltic 11.02
    5 Eastern_Euro 7.67
    6 East_Med 3.49
    7 West_Asian 2.9
    8 South_Asian 1.23
    9 Northeast_African 0.31
    10 Amerindian 0.12

    The Single Population results do a good job of figuring that she is almost equally close to English as to German:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 West_German 4.93
    2 Southwest_English 5
    3 South_Dutch 5.55
    4 Southeast_English 6.8
    5 French 7.42

    And....the sixteenth best mixed-mode result is spot on:

    16 50.7% West_German + 49.3% Southwest_English @ 3.31

    The "two populations" Oracle is spot on:

    1 50% Southwest_English +50% West_German @ 3.678511

    The "four populations" Oracles are not as good, coming up with Norwegians and Spaniards in order to produce results like hers. You have to remember that it is just taking the population percentages from the spreadsheet and finding the four that when used at a rate of 25% come the closest to the total for the person being tested. This really only has somewhat of a chance if that is the way the person's ancestry is divided:

    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 2.910934
    2 Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 2.923605
    3 Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German @ 3.008091
    4 Norwegian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia + West_German @ 3.015116
    5 Spanish_Cantabria + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.020440
    6 French + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.053581
    7 Spanish_Cantabria + Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.056436
    8 French + Norwegian + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian @ 3.104060
    9 Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia + Swedish + West_German @ 3.144738
    10 Southwest_French + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 3.170101

    The eleventh result is probably about the best as the Norwegian could be not too far from the Scottish and British:

    11 Norwegian + Southwest_French + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 3.190421

    It has to use the Southwest French, I think, to compensate for being too "north" with the Norwegians in the mix.

    I hope my two cents helps a little.

  16. #10
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    I appreciate your 2 cents! Your responses have always been helpful. Based on my results, I'm starting to think that I'm living proof of how "Germanic" many of the Ulster Scots really are. It's clear in the record that very little intermarriage between the Lowlanders & the native Irish took place, and since our arrival in Scotland in the 7th century we were referred to as "Sassanach" by the Highlanders.

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