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Thread: Two probable R1b-V88 among our Cameroonian samples collected by A00 project

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    Two probable R1b-V88 among our Cameroonian samples collected by A00 project

    Among the ~410 samples we've collected from people in Cameroon, at least two of them appear to be very likely R1b-V88. Most R1b-V88 from Cameroon are from the far northern region, but a few must have made their way down to the southwest.

    Thomas Krahn tells me that V88 is a no-good SNP, which he doesn't like to test. But I see that there are others, such as PF6289 that's being tested by FTDNA's Big Y, and Geno 2.0. I've seen postings indicating there are a series of SNPs found in the Big Y and/or Geno 2.0 results of members of V88 that are not found in other clades, for instance see: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-05/1400072413

    Surely among these we can find some worthy candidates to test in these Cameroonian samples. Is there anyone out there who's interested in investigating them?

    In the original paper by Cruciani, 2010, "Human Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88: a paternal genetic record of early mid Holocene trans-Saharan connections and the spread of Chadic languages," which Jean cited in another thread, the data shows that 17 out of 45 Central-West African (mostly Cameroonian) V88+ samples were V69+. So we should certainly test V69, too.

    What do folks think would be the best set of SNPs to test on these samples?

    Here's the deal from YSEQ: if anyone will donate $17.50 per SNP that you want to have tested, to our A00 research project fundraiser, here, http://experiment.com/a00west, then Thomas will test those SNPs for us. He won't take the money from the donated funds, though, he'll donate the cost of the tests to our fundraiser.

    Looking forward to your ideas and support.

    Bonnie

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    How about PF6376 as a substitute for V88? http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post91603 [Where btw Rich Rocca was responding to post #189 on that same thread, by rms2.]

    The Neolithic El Trocs guy was supposed to be R1b1 (M478-, PF6399-, L265-, L150-, M269-, V35-, V69-). It might be worthwhile to test the oldest couple of SNPs on that list, to see how different he might be from the present day Cameroon samples -- and whether any of that difference is considered ancient. I guess realistically we don't yet know of any more recent Cameroonian SNPs until somebody is sequenced with NextGen technology.

    If you and Thomas agree on a list of six that he is comfortable about testing, and that would actually prove something useful, I'll donate to cover testing one guy for the six. His offer is very generous.

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    Have you contacted the admins of the R-M343 (M73- M269-) DNA Project at FTDNA?

    They currently list the following as equivalent:


    PF6279/V88, FGC20963/V3544, FGC20965/Y8450, FGC20972/Y8457, FGC20975/Y7782, FGC20978/Y8455, FGC20982/V3923, FGC20996/Y7772, FGC20999/SK2064/Y7778, FGC21000/Y7780, FGC21012/V2219, FGC21020/Y8456, FGC21051/Y8448, FGC21057/Y7776, FGC21059/Y7781, FGC21066/Y7789, FGC24688/Y7769, L729/M2087/Z15/Z518, PF6277, PF6278, PF6281, PF6287, PF6288, PF6289, PF6290, PF6291, PF6292, PF6293, PF6295, PF6298, PF6299, PF6301, PF6302, PF6303, PF6304, PF6305, PF6307, PF6309, PF6310, PF6311, PF6312, PF6313, PF6314, PF6315, PF6318, PF6321/V4036, PF6323, PF6324, PF6327, PF6328, PF6329, PF6330, PF6332, PF6333, PF6334, PF6335, PF6338, PF6339, PF6340, PF6341, PF6343, PF6344, PF6345, PF6376, S5025/Z2174, Y10835, Y7770/Z30230, Y7774, Z30232, BY426/Z5044, Y:3292599 (T/A), Y:3294407 (G/T), Y:3953287 (C/T), Y:5765867 (C/T), Y:5776236 (G/A), Y:5813251 (T/G), Y:9513046 (C/T), Y:22423896 (C/A), Y:22439061 (G/A), Y:28803867 (T/C)

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    Their subgroup _R1b1c (V88+) Cluster D2 (V69+) has two Cameroonian research samples, kits# 197236 and 197237.

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    OMG, thank you, Vince, I'm sorry, I didn't see V88 in the tree when I first looked at it! There are so many little tiny SNP names in there! ;-) Actually what might have happened is that I first had the ht35 tree on the screen and got mixed up (late at night) as to which I was looking at? Who knows, the important thing is they have an amazing number of branches now identified below it, and lots of haplotypes to compare with ours. Where, I wonder, did they get the research samples? I will have to ask. Let me go compare their haplotypes with ours.

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    OK! I compared their 18 marker haplotypes with the V88 cluster members in that project, and they fit very well. They don't have an exact match, but their nearest one seems to be kit 342967. He's in cluster D3, which is V69-, but there isn't a great deal of difference between that and the D2 V69+ cluster and cluster D1, possible V69+. So this puts us in the ballpark, and tells us that they definitely need to be tested for V69.

    They don't match the Cameroonian V69+ research samples, they have a GD with them of at least 5 on those 18 markers. I suspect ours may be V69-.

    Now I just have to find some people who'd like to underwrite their testing.

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    Smile New Year Challenge: R1b in Cameroon -- from Thomas Krahn

    Among our samples collected by Mathew on his last field trips we have found the following two haplotypes:

    http://www.yseq.net/R1bCameroonChallenge.html

    Note that Y-GATA-H4 is in the NIST standard. If you want to compare them to FTDNA you need to subtract 1. The haplogroup predictors clearly claim 100% R1b.

    Now the question is: How did those two Y chromosomes find their way to Sub-Saharan Africa? Could it be that some Europeans have left their traces during colonization times?

    Well, if you're familiar with R1b in Europe, the haplotypes still look a little bit strange.

    Also we keep finding R1b distribution maps that highlight an R1b hot-spot in Northern Cameroon:
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    Wikipedia characterizes the hotspot in Northern Cameroon as R1b-V88. However V88 is in a region of the Y chromosome that is 97.9% identical to ChrX, so it wouldn't qualify for a stable marker according to the newest ISOGG guidelines. I'd rather prefer to test stable known SNPs that independently proof the association with the North African and Arabic regions.

    I'd like to involve you, the R1b experts to use your knowledge and experience to solve this mystery in a group effort. At the same time I'd like to give the A00 Cameroon Research Project another push for donations.

    So here are the rules of the game:

    YSEQ will do free SNP tests on those 2 samples if you donate an equal amount ($17.50 per SNP) to Bonnie Schrack's A00 Cameroon Research project.

    http://experiment.com/a00west

    When you make the donation, send Bonnie and myself an email [email protected], [email protected] with the marker you want to sponsor and the YSEQ ID it should be tested for. The marker must be available in the YSEQ catalog:

    https://www.yseq.net/

    or at least we must have the primers in stock so that we can quickly test them. Ask us for a distinct SNP if you're unsure.

    We will process the SNPs in the very next batch and release the results to the public. You can keep sponsoring the next round when the results come in. But note that the A00 Cameroon project deadline at experiment.com is on January 6th! So there are only 5 days left to submit your suggested SNP and the associated sample ID.

    The Prize:

    The researcher who submits the most downstream positive SNP first will win a free Haplogroup Panel at YSEQ which he can use for a person of his choice. Since there are two samples, there are two Haplogroup Panels that you can win!

    Good luck and Happy New Year!

    Thomas

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    Razyn,

    Yikes, I didn't see your post somehow! My apologies! Thanks for the links to the posts about the El Trocs man, and for suggesting PF6376.

    Your idea is fine. Just so you'll be participating on the same terms as others, could you send your list of six that you'd like to test to [email protected] and [email protected]? To make it easier, the R1b-M343 tree is here: http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/R1b-M34...11_25_2015.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie View Post
    OK! I compared their 18 marker haplotypes with the V88 cluster members in that project, and they fit very well. They don't have an exact match, but their nearest one seems to be kit 342967. He's in cluster D3, which is V69-, but there isn't a great deal of difference between that and the D2 V69+ cluster and cluster D1, possible V69+. So this puts us in the ballpark, and tells us that they definitely need to be tested for V69.

    They don't match the Cameroonian V69+ research samples, they have a GD with them of at least 5 on those 18 markers. I suspect ours may be V69-.

    Now I just have to find some people who'd like to underwrite their testing.
    FTDNA# Kit N131996 is also in Cluster D3, and is listed under the branch defined by Y:7671458 (A/G) [= Y18459], Y:19396341 (T/C) [= Y18462]. Both locations look promising for primers, the former more-so than the latter. Also see YFull branch R-Y18458; #YF02325 lists his ancestral origin as Kano, Nigeria, which I suspect would be the same as FTDNA #317546 (Musa).

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    Hi Vince,

    Thanks! Sounds great. Would you mind summarizing this in an email to Thomas and I, with a proposal of which couple of SNPs you'd like to sponsor?

    Appreciate it!

    Bonnie

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