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Thread: Z39589 - unites DF41, DF49, L1335, Z251, S1051, Y14240

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    So, do you recommend a category for the guys who are showing ZZ10_1 as their terminal SNP, or should I hold off?
    I would say go ahead and create a group for them. I think there are close to a half dozen men who are ZZ10* at the moment, maybe more? It's better than being just DF13*.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by seferhabahir View Post
    He has about 40 unique FGC SNPs below Z39589 that haven't been found in anyone else to date. I'm very interested in these kinds of one-offs below DF13.
    I forget the name of the area of Germany his family came from before going to Transylvania; I think it was in the Rhineland somewhere. That place and among the Rhenish Romanian transplants (yes, the Transylvanian transplants) would be the places to look for other men who share his terminal SNP.
    Last edited by rms2; 01-03-2016 at 09:41 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamson View Post
    I would say go ahead and create a group for them. I think there are close to a half dozen men who are ZZ10* at the moment, maybe more? It's better than being just DF13*.
    Will do. I will probably put Thomas in a new Z39589 category, as well.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

  5. #24
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    Okay, I added a ZZ10+ category, a Z39589+ category, and reordered the whole shebang to reflect the phylogenetic order (somewhat). It's not alphabetical; there are just too many new SNPs coming down the pike to keep up with being that orderly.

    The R L21 and Subclades Project is pretty ponderous now, at over 4,000 members.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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     dp (04-13-2016)

  7. #25
    HI Alex, just spotted this, what's the story behind the discovery of this del, which is clearly very important? How come it has been missed till now? I see Krahn is * for it.

  8. #26
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    It's funny, I had never really looked at Z251 before. FTDNA's map shows a significant number in NE Europe: 1 in Poland, 2 in Belarus, 1 in Lithuania, 2 in Latvia, and 1 in Russia. There are also 2 in Sweden, 1 in Germany and 1 in Belgium. While the majority are found in the UK and Ireland, that seems to be a significant geographic spread, and the Baltic presence isn't something I would have expected.

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  10. #27
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    How come it has been missed till now?
    Z39589 isn't covered by Big Y. It's only showing up in Y Elites and WGS tests. Since Big Y has been overwhelmingly popular most of the data points don't have a result. That makes it difficult to spot patterns like this.

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Mc View Post
    It's funny, I had never really looked at Z251 before. FTDNA's map shows a significant number in NE Europe: 1 in Poland, 2 in Belarus, 1 in Lithuania, 2 in Latvia, and 1 in Russia. There are also 2 in Sweden, 1 in Germany and 1 in Belgium. While the majority are found in the UK and Ireland, that seems to be a significant geographic spread, and the Baltic presence isn't something I would have expected.
    A lot of that northeastern presence no doubt comes from the Baltic Ashkenazi Z251+ cluster. Elise Friedman and I stumbled on it at about the same time back in, I think, 2009. That was back when we did not know there was a Z251. All we knew was that the cluster was L21+. At the time, Anatole Klyosov did an analysis and concluded the cluster shared a common ancestor in the 14th or 15th century and probably represented descendants of Jews who fled to Lithuania and Poland from the Rhineland following persecution there when the Jews were blamed for the bubonic plague.

    I first noticed the cluster when I spotted several men with Ashkenazi surnames who shared the following off-modal marker values: 388=11, 392=14, 459b=9, and 464c=15. I convinced a few of them to test for L21, and they all turned out to be L21+. Once Z251 was discovered, they were all found to be Z251+, as well. I have not kept up with their latest terminal SNP or SNPs downstream of Z251.
    Last edited by rms2; 01-16-2016 at 08:24 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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     David Mc (01-17-2016),  dp (02-05-2016)

  13. #29
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    Thanks for the great response, Rich!

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     rms2 (01-17-2016)

  15. #30
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    At the time,Anatole Klyosov did an analysis and concluded the cluster shared a common ancestor in the 14th or 15th century and probably represented descendants of Jews who fled to Lithuania and Poland from the Rhineland following persecution there when the Jews were blamed for the bubonic plague.They were in Rhine Valley (for me Strasbourg,Alsace,France) and are going east and come back later as R1b-L21/DF13+/Z39589+/Y14240/FGC35995+ and Y14049/FGC35996+ as iberian ashkenaze. =D

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