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Thread: Assyrian Y-DNA Distribution

  1. #1
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    Assyrian Y-DNA Distribution

    A milestone. The distribution is still predominated by members of the "Nestorian" church, but it is certainly a very good beginning. Most of the data is from 23andMe and FTDNA.

    N=100 (Jan. 25, 2013)
    23% R1b
    20% J1
    14% T
    14% J2
    9% E1b1b1
    9% G
    4% R2a
    3% Q1b
    2% R1a
    1% F
    1% L



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    Cool!

    Incidentally, this is my standing offer to test your R1a guys for relevant downstream SNPs. I suspect there's a fair amount of unexplored R1a in the Near East, with a number of different subclades in the R-Arabia Project:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...a/default.aspx

    But we're weak on R1a from the northern Near East for now:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    The frequency of Y-DNA T-M184 is remarkable. I have never seen a sample population in the region exceed 10%. Does the subclade diversity within Assyrians tell us much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJL View Post
    Cool!

    Incidentally, this is my standing offer to test your R1a guys for relevant downstream SNPs. I suspect there's a fair amount of unexplored R1a in the Near East, with a number of different subclades in the R-Arabia Project:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...a/default.aspx

    But we're weak on R1a from the northern Near East for now:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults
    Hi AJ. That is very generous of you. Yonan (kit # 42050) is Z93+. Please let me know which SNPs you would like to test, and I will get in contact with him regarding the testing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    The frequency of Y-DNA T-M184 is remarkable. I have never seen a sample population in the region exceed 10%. Does the subclade diversity within Assyrians tell us much?
    Hi, Humata. It is difficult to say, really. I am hoping they will test some of the other ethnic minorities in the region soon. I would also like to better understand the Y-DNA T in SW Iran (e.g. Bakhtiari).

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    It's my pleasure! There's a new SNP beyond Z93 and L342 below it (L342 is itself a little unreliable since it can back-mutate) called Z2122. I'd like to try Mr. Yonan for Z2122, and if Mr. Assur is amenable, Z93, at least for starters.

    Right now, Z2122 includes one Ukrainian, both Mamluk and annihilus from DNA-Forums (both seeming to have Steppe Turkic ancestry), and Ashkenazi Levites. It would be great to see if this is truly a north-of-Caucasus SNP or if it extends into the northern Near East as well.
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    Don't forget Z2122 also includes Orlov-Boukolov, a Russian from Belgorod.

    Just an interesting observation, not related to human migration patterns, that so far Z2122+ tested members' ancestors, when placed on a map, are almost lined up along the 36'E longitude (Belarus on 27'E).

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    Yes, thanks, I had forgotten about him.
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    A milestone. The distribution is still predominated by members of the "Nestorian" church, but it is certainly a very good beginning. Most of the data is from 23andMe and FTDNA.

    N=100 (Jan. 25, 2013)
    23% R1b
    20% J1
    14% T
    14% J2
    9% E1b1b1
    9% G
    4% R2a
    3% Q1b
    2% R1a
    1% F
    1% L


    Thanks for sharing, Humanist. This is pretty interesting. The high frequency of T and R1b is remarkable for the Middle East. It is a little bit early to ask for that but do you see any regional/religious clustering within the Assyrian community?

    Quote Originally Posted by AJL View Post
    It's my pleasure! There's a new SNP beyond Z93 and L342 below it (L342 is itself a little unreliable since it can back-mutate) called Z2122. I'd like to try Mr. Yonan for Z2122, and if Mr. Assur is amenable, Z93, at least for starters.

    Right now, Z2122 includes one Ukrainian, both Mamluk and annihilus from DNA-Forums (both seeming to have Steppe Turkic ancestry), and Ashkenazi Levites. It would be great to see if this is truly a north-of-Caucasus SNP or if it extends into the northern Near East as well.
    FYI, the Z2122 test for the Iraqi Kurd H1483 (Z93+, L342+, L657-) is ongoing.
    Based on the new STR111 the R1a tree I presented here
    http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2013/...r111-tree.html
    I want to make the prediction that the Z2122 SNP is also present in the Middle East because (besides 116213) H1483 is one of the closest individuals to the Ashkenazi Levite cluster. Additionally, I think "Mamluk" is actually a Palestinian (116213), and "annihilus" (158657) is a Turk from Turkey, so they are both from South of the Caucasus. They can correct me if I am wrong.
    Taken the current data together, Z2122 includes one Ukrainian, a Russian from Belgorod, one Palestinian, one Turk, and the Ashkenazi Levites.

    The Assyrian R1a individual 92226 is closest to M7171 (Yusuf; L342-, L657-, Z283-, Z93+, Z94-).

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     AJL (01-28-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palisto View Post
    FYI, the Z2122 test for the Iraqi Kurd H1483 (Z93+, L342+, L657-) is ongoing.
    Based on the new STR111 the R1a tree I presented here
    http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2013/...r111-tree.html
    I want to make the prediction that the Z2122 SNP is also present in the Middle East because (besides 116213) H1483 is one of the closest individuals to the Ashkenazi Levite cluster. Additionally, I think "Mamluk" is actually a Palestinian (116213), and "annihilus" (158657) is a Turk from Turkey, so they are both from South of the Caucasus. They can correct me if I am wrong.
    Taken the current data together, Z2122 includes one Ukrainian, a Russian from Belgorod, one Palestinian, one Turk, and the Ashkenazi Levites.

    The Assyrian R1a individual 92226 is closest to M7171 (Yusuf; L342-, L657-, Z283-, Z93+, Z94-).
    Thanks, I'll be very interested to see the results of kit H1483.
     

    Hidden Content
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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palisto View Post
    I want to make the prediction that the Z2122 SNP is also present in the Middle East because (besides 116213) H1483 is one of the closest individuals to the Ashkenazi Levite cluster.

    Additionally, I think "Mamluk" is actually a Palestinian (116213), and "annihilus" (158657) is a Turk from Turkey, so they are both from South of the Caucasus. They can correct me if I am wrong.
    Palisto, H1483 results will be interesting to see.

    You are technically right about Annihilus and I, but to a certain degree. Our family histories (oral and written) state that our ancestors came from north of the Black Sea. If my memory isn't muddled, I think Annihilus said he can verify with a "paper trail" his ancestor's arrival to Turkey from the Balkans/Greece, but oral tradition takes the ancestors further back to the Steppe. I've been interested to know the details of his history. And I assume his ancestor arrived to Turkey as a result of the workings of the Ottoman Empire.

    My family patriarch was an actual mamluk, before the Ottomans even arrived, and given the time period, came from what is now Ukraine, but not further east than Rostov oblast (in Russia). His arrival, and those of other patriarchs from my grandparents' hometown, was the result of them being sent there to occupy a conquered Templar fortress (called the Castle of Saphet) under command of Sultan Baybars, who himself was born in Ukraine! For about 700 years my family continued to occupy the same house within the Templar fortress compound until the fall of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.

    I am not too familiar with details of the histories of the Kurdish and Assyrian peoples, but if Z2122 shows up there, then I would assume, among other assumptions: That Z2122 is a much older SNP--that maybe it even pre-dates the Scythians, and maybe the Hittites and Mittani brought it with them to the Fertile Crescent? (they themselves supposedly came from north of the Caucasus), and this may help explain why some Kurds look more like Afghans and Türkmen, than Iraqi Arabs, and speak an Indo-European language instead of a Semitic one. (?)

    My current assumption in regards to Z2122, is that it either arose among the Scythian peoples, or among the proto-Khazars and Kipchaks-Cumans arriving from the east, during the Turkic migrations westwards, and can now be found in some of their R1a-L342 descendants.

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