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Thread: Do people of Ashkenazi ancestry classify themselves as Levantine?

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    Do people of Ashkenazi ancestry classify themselves as Levantine?

    This is a topic I've been thinking about for the last few days. I have minor Ashkenazi ancestry on paper, however do I classify myself as part Levantine rather than European, as that's where this line originated from, as shown via testing? Or do people with Ashkenazi ancestry only classify themselves as European and ignore their Middle Eastern roots? Or, do you consider yourself both? If so, do you feel more of a connection to the Middle East or Europe?

    Hoping to get some views from those with Jewish and non Jewish ancestry.
    Ancestry on paper: English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Croatian, Ashkenazi, Polish and Māori.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtoml4 View Post
    This is a topic I've been thinking about for the last few days. I have minor Ashkenazi ancestry on paper, however do I classify myself as part Levantine rather than European, as that's where this line originated from, as shown via testing? Or do people with Ashkenazi ancestry only classify themselves as European and ignore their Middle Eastern roots? Or, do you consider yourself both? If so, do you feel more of a connection to the Middle East or Europe?

    Hoping to get some views from those with Jewish and non Jewish ancestry.
    How large is that component in you? IMHO I don't know how much it matters, I used to try and think about it a lot and it drove me mad.

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    Just Jewish. Jews identify by a tribal affiliation (Jewish) and not by unspecific larger label such as Levantine or Near Eastern. Levantines identify as Shami ( Bilad al Sham meaning 'The north land') in regards to the more southernly located Arabian peninsula. Levant is the term used in a European context ( Levant comes from French for 'rising', as the sun rises in the East , here the Eastern part of the Mediterranean/Old World) to refers to this land/area.
    This said you should best see your Ashkenazi side as just Ashkenazi or simply Jewish that would in itself implies ancestry from the Levant where Judaism started.

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    culture
    is stronger than genes and although full aschenazi can trace 49%
    of there genes to europe, by culture i dont think aschenazi identify themselfs as levantine but europeans
    instead
    just my thoughts.
    regards
    adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    culture
    is stronger than genes and although full aschenazi can trace 49%
    of there genes to europe,
    Jury still out on that one.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    m gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    m gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    m ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    p ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Turner: R-U152
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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    here is an example : turkey
    modern people in turkey speak turcik language
    but i saw many turks ftdna my origin results and most of them score between 5-7% north east asian cluster.
    its there but most of modern turkish people native of antolia today there highest component is antolia caucasus cluster
    so its great example where you speak turkish langauge but only 5-7% of your genome descendent from oghuz turkic tribe
    so culture won big time here.
    another example are modern day hungarians who spaek finno -ugaric langauge but have only 1-2% east asian genes culture won .
    regards
    adam

    p.s aschenazi dont have the same culture as levantines like druze or lebanese christians
    they lived 2000 years in europe so there culture is more european than levantine.

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    Nobody identifies as Levantine to begin with, not even "Levantines" themselves (it's an exonyme).

    As for Ashkenazis in Israel, they know (or believe) that their ancestors came from the Holy Land, which is accurate in light of their autosomal profile.
    Paternal Y-DNA haplogroup: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183
    Maternal [grandfather] Y-DNA: E-M35>E-Z827>L19>M81>M183>PF2477>PF2546
    Hidden Content

    Lactase Persistence (LP)
    13910: TT (rs4988235 AA)
    22018: AA (rs182549 TT)

    (my mother's LP: same results)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyss View Post
    Levantines identify as Shami ( Bilad al Sham meaning 'The north land') in regards to the more southernly located Arabian peninsula.
    Actually, the ś-m-' root relates to the left, not the north, hence PS *śim'al- which yielded Hebrew śmol (left), Ugaritic šmal (left), Aramaic semala (left side), Akkadian šumêlu (idem) and Arabic šamâl (north)... So "Sham" would mean "leftwards" looking east from the Hijaz, accordingly, "Yaman" means "rightwards" (y-m-n root, PS *yamîn- and - hypothetically - PAA *yamin-).
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
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    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignis90 View Post
    As for Ashkenazis in Israel, they know (or believe) that their ancestors came from the Holy Land, which is accurate in light of their autosomal profile.
    Half of their genes are European, though. And this shows as well. They are as "Middle Eastern" as Cape Verdeans (a mulatto group) are African.

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    It's rather confusing identity phenomenon. While Asheknazi Jews and other jewish groups seem to identify with "eretz israel" or the state of Israel, a modern middle eastern state. They do see themselves as s diffrentated group and closer to Europeans/Americans than to Levantines of various faiths, due to their national culture, thriving economy and conflict with various neighbours. The older generation mizrahi jews however do not seem to have this neo-jewish state identity. Jews in the west seem(especially American jews) to identify with Europeans and "whites" . I do tend to think that askenazis see themselves in the same category as Europeans. Several ashkenazi authors tend to express cultural kinship with Europe via judeo-Christian civilization.
    Last edited by Arbogan; 01-06-2016 at 12:08 AM.

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