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Thread: Y-DNA Haplogroup Percentages and maps for England: Source FTDNA Y-DNA projects

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamson View Post
    Could it be that men with non-R1b predicted haplogroups are more likely to confirm those predictions via SNP testing? You might be able to test that by checking if counties with a higher proportion of non-R1b men are over-represented compared to those with a lower proportion of non-R1b.
    May be, but since I didn't use or keep data for "predicted haplogroups" i.e. all 1830 samples used were confirmed with SNP testing; I don't have a way of comparing predicted vs confirmed.

    I'm not sure I exactly follow your last sentence, but I could go back and look at the British Isles DNA Project by County data (about 1/3rd of my total numbers).

    For example of the 21 total samples (predicted and confirmed) for Leicester, 12 are non R1b or 54.5%.

    6 of the 12 non R1b are predicted and 6 are confirmed via testing. Of the 9 R1b samples 7 are predicted and two confirmed.

    So if I understand you correctly then in this small example 50% of the total non R1b have tested and only 22% of R1b have.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 01-06-2016 at 08:16 PM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamson View Post
    You might be able to test that by checking if counties with a higher proportion of non-R1b men are over-represented compared to those with a lower proportion of non-R1b.
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I'm not sure I follow your last sentence as far as how to do that.
    I was thinking you could use the population and FTDNA testing numbers you provided in your first post on this thread.

    There are probably better ways to do this, but you could perhaps take the top 5 counties with the highest proportion of non-R1b men. For those 5 counties you divide your number of FTDNA tested men by the total population of those counties. That gives you some sort of testing rate. You repeat this process for the 5 counties with the highest proportion of R1b men, and then compare the two rates. I'm not sure if the results would be statistically significant, but you could see if there is a higher rate for non-R1b counties, than for R1b dominated counties.

    There could be various reasons for a discrepancy. Perhaps the I, J, G, ... haplogroup project admins encourage SNP testing more than the R1b admins, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    For example of the 21 total samples (predicted and confirmed) for Leicester, 12 are non R1b or 54.5%.

    6 of the 12 non R1b are predicted and 6 are confirmed via testing. Of the 9 R1b samples 7 are predicted and two confirmed.

    So if I understand you correctly then in this small example 50% of the total non R1b have tested and only 22% of R1b have.
    Yes, that would be an even better way of doing it, although a bit more work maybe.

  5. #14
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  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamson View Post
    Could it be that men with non-R1b predicted haplogroups are more likely to confirm those predictions via SNP testing? You might be able to test that by checking if counties with a higher proportion of non-R1b men are over-represented compared to those with a lower proportion of non-R1b.
    Mr Williamson, you are a smart man! I think you have hit the nail on the head.

    I went to my original spreadsheet of British DNA by county Project which includes Wales, Ireland, Scotland, and England, but it should suffice for this experiment.

    Overall there were 1921 samples in all of the British Isles that were in specific counties. Of these 1921, 1095 were confirmed via SNP testing for 56.9%, and 826 predicted. I didn't breakout R1b from R, but when you compare R to all non R haplotypes there is difference.

    R: 1379 samples total, of which 743 are confirmed, for 53.9% of total.
    Non R: 542 samples total, of which 352 are confirmed, 64.9% of total.

    So Non R haplotypes are 11% more likely to have a confirmed SNP test compared to R haplotype, and thus will be over represented in the FTDNA data.

    Congratulations on figuring that one out!
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 01-06-2016 at 09:06 PM.
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    I do really like your maps. You did an amazing job. Do you have any interesting in extending them to the rest of the island?

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williamson View Post
    I do really like your maps. You did an amazing job. Do you have any interesting in extending them to the rest of the island?
    Thanks, I will eventually, but England wore me out. I need a little break first.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 01-06-2016 at 09:09 PM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    I will eventually, but England wore me out. I need a little break first.
    Thanks for creating a Pinterest board. It facilitates reposting maps of interest.
    Which mapping platform have you used? I have experimented with ESRI with mixed results.
    Howard Mathieson has some interesting surmname maps here:
    https://www.pinterest.com/howardmath...-maps-ireland/
    It might be interesting to combine surname and SNP analysis.
    Last edited by Heber; 01-06-2016 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Surname Analysis
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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heber View Post
    Thanks for creating a Pinterest board. It facilitates reposting maps of interest.
    Which mapping platform have you used? I have experimented with ESRI with mixed results.
    Howard Mathieson has some interesting surmname maps here:
    https://www.pinterest.com/howardmath...-maps-ireland/
    You are welcome. My ESRI arcmap license has expired, so I'm embarrassed to say I'm just doing it by hand using a bitmap of England I modify. I did use my cartography knowledge to create the maps...balance, placement, colors etc (ok the U152 vs DF27 is a little gawdy on the colors and I couldn't find a North symbol I liked).

    If anyone wants to take the data and do frequency maps for England let me know. Like this one.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 01-06-2016 at 09:27 PM.
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  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    It's not due to duplicate kits of the same lineage in the same county. I eliminated 100 samples so that I had none with the same or very similar surnames per county. However, the same surname could be in a neighboring county, but an over representation of a surname in neighboring counties would apply to all haplogroups.

    Maybe Non R1b groups immigrated to North America in disproportionate numbers? If so, I'm not sure why this would happen.

    Another possibility is non R1b FTDNA members are disproportionately participating in FTDNA projects?

    Overall R1b comes out to 56.8% of the total.


    EDIT: I took a quick look at the overall R1b numbers and at least in Cornwall they appear to be in line with other studies. I will investigate further.

    For example Balaresque et al. (2009) had Cornwall at 78.1%. I got 78.33%. They had 64 samples I had 60.

    Balaresque et al. (2009) had Leicester at 62.4% R1b. I got 54.5% for Leicester but I only had 22 samples. They had 43 samples. Leicester was too small to count by itself so it's been combined in a region with Derbyshire and Northampton.

    EDIT 2
    I haven't been able to find the total numbers for the Balaresque et al. (2009) study yet. I believe this map might be from Balaresque et al. (2009)...not sure though. If so then yes the FTDNA numbers for R1b are lower in most regions compared to this study.



    EDIT 3: Myers and Busby combined got 64.4% for R1b (U106, L21, U152, P312 other) for England. 327 out of 508 samples. So again the FTDNA R1b numbers are lower, by 7.6% in this case.
    Source https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...mwmCA&hl=en_US
    If one increases R1b by 11% based on post 15 above, then R1b would be ~63% of England
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
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